Strange group on the fringes of our rally, claiming to be actual Communists...

[Hekate]

The half dozen or so of them just kept walking, carrying signs with gen-you-wine Commie headlines and front pages pasted on.

Here’s my observations and questions: in the moment they were not disruptive, but they certainly would make a great visual for our right wing “friends”. Their affect was out of joint — when was the last time you saw a group of people dressed up like caricatures of scruffy hippies? Seriously — in this century?

So I go home and share this with hubby, and his question was: What century do they think they’re in? To which I responded: Who sent them?

Am I being overly suspicious? Are they cosplaying something? Does Putin not count as a Communist any more, since he’s now an oligarch? Are they just being ironic? Are they still a thing on the American far left, such that we have to expect they will just show up from time to time and try to come along for the ride?

SMH

[Raven123]

1. Might need to make some "Not with us" signs with arrows pointing their way

Would be interim some sleuth got photos and could find out their identities and affiliations

[Klarkashton]

2. Very possible false flags there to discredit the rally.

It's a worn out trick used by assholes.

[Jit423]

57. Right now, communism is looking pretty good compared to all the fascism around us and running our gov. nt

[Hekate]

64. Pure communism as hoped for by Marx & Lenin never worked out, though

Be careful what you wish for. What developed in Eastern Europe and parts of Asia as the USSR and in China as the People’s Republic was far, far, from the benign ideals.

[canetoad]

3. Suspicious?

Yes, but not overly and not without bloody good reason. Shame you couldn't look under their clothes for the MAGA/Nazi tatts.

[wcmagumba]

4. Those dirty commies...

[MayReasonRule]

30. No One Leaves Empty Handed... LMAO!!!

My honey and I just watched it.

Off the hook, unhinged and priceless!!

Neither of us had caught that particular piece before.

Thank you wcmagumba!

[Irish_Dem]

5. It seems likely Trump will send his gestapo agents to discredit the protesters.

And perhaps even turn the rallies violent.
So he can declare martial law and ban any protests.

[yellow dahlia]

45. I have been concerned about the same thing.

I observe the rhetoric and not so subliminal brainwashing on RWmedia.

They are describing the radical left lunatics as violent. Seriously!? A bunch of gray hairs.

Hannity showed a clip recently, of a group of Turning Point "young" Republicans who were supposedly harassed by "Antifa", at UC Davis. It was lame, and looked performative to me.

Sounds like the pretend "commies" today looked lame and performative also.

I think "we" all need to be careful and alert. I am so glad the recent protests and rallies, including today, have been so peaceful. Love that grass roots organizing!

[Irish_Dem]

62. Yes it seems obvious that Trump would pull this.

When someone punches him, he punches back ten times harder.

And autocrats must squash all dissent.

We also know Trump wants to establish martial law.

So the protests seem a logical place for Trump to try some false flag strategies.

Yes we must be very careful.

[bucolic_frolic]

6. If they were real Commies they would have been questioned or arrested

[Ms. Toad]

7. Photos, or I can't tell you.

I have a number of friends who dress in a way that might be described as caricatures of scruffy hippies. I saw a few today (not my friends) that would be described that way.

I also have have had friends who were members of the Communist Party USA. No idea if they still are. But they would frequently show up at demonstrations carrying communist signs.

So what you've described isn't outside the realm of my experience of people who are genuinely protesting, but who have a different viewpoint than I do about communism.

And as for appearance - Stonewall happened because there were people who were so flamboyant that many in the gay community were embarrassed by them. And - at every gay public event I've been at there are those who still embarrass members of the LGBTQI+ community who would rather we not be so outlandish. But back to Stonewall - it was those individuals who were so far down that they had nothing to lose by being publicly arrested who are in a large part responsible for the fact that my marriage is recognized today. (Prior to that time, police routinely harassed closeted gays in bars like stonewall, and elsewhere, for fun and amusement - knowing that none would dare risk going public.)

[cadoman]

15. how they would react to being photographed would probably say a lot as to how genuine they were

If they were genuinely embracing and seeking communist policies rather than socialist, they probably would not mind being identified and trying to sell you on it.

[Ms. Toad]

17. As to communism - you're probably right.

I don't recall my communist friends, back in the day, being shy about being photographed carrying communist signs.

I was also reacting to what seems to me an odd characterization of their appearance (caricature of aging hippies).

[Sympthsical]

8. They exist and gravitate to protests

This could very much be location bias on my end, but in the Bay Area, if there's ten people having a protest somewhere, one of them is going to be a communist or handing out workers' literature or whatever. If not them, then anarchists, Black Bloc, or BAMN.

And yeah, most of the old school communists tend to be from the aging hippie demographic. I was at a street festival not too long ago where local businesses, politicians, etc. had booths. There they were with their own booth with the pamphlets. I've seen them around my suburb near the Safeway where people sometimes hold signs at a busy intersection during rush hour.

Hazard of the trade, really. They seem mostly harmless. I always wonder what their meetings must be like. And whether or not they genuinely think communism is a thing, or if it's just a mishmash of ideologies now. I've never asked, because they have a look about them that says, "You will get stuck in this conversation for 20 mins".

[TnDem]

9. re: hippies

I worked with one a few years ago...Reminded you of a Jerry Garcia roadie...Good guy, but the depth of his discussion was "power to the people".

[UpInArms]

10. I was at a protest

Many years ago … (have been to so many in between) … but at this one, we were warned there would be people who would come just to disrupt and try to get the protest to get negative publicity

Probably something along those lines happening at yours

[alittlelark]

11. When u see those 'fringe groups' at protests look at hair + shoes

During the Iraq war protests in the Bay Area I noticed the extremist fringe groups had very expensive haircuts and shoes……..

[Sympthsical]

16. No tinfoil required

It's because mom and dad are footing their bills.

A lot of the people who join these fringe groups picked it up at an expensive college (hello, UCB) and have the time and disposable income for their political hobby.

I lived in East Bay and used to spend a lot more time in the city, and it's always kind of interesting to watch. You'd get this blend of drifting stoners and affluent suburban revolutionary cosplay. And which one you got just sort of depended on the day.

I live in North Bay now and see it significantly less, but they still float around. We let a friend of a friend of a friend rent a spare room from us a few years ago during Covid, and he was an actual Antifa sort. His friends were all parentally financed. He was fun. Tried to convince my AAPI partner that he had internal white supremacy. Oh lord. You know, the guy renting him a room for $700 in a neighborhood where studios cost $2500/month. Yeah, go pester that guy, lol.

It was entertaining, tho.

[alittlelark]

22. I was assuming govt infiltrators

[Sympthsical]

53. I wouldn't assume that in the Bay Area. The government really need not bother

Because genuine articles of the Far Left will show up at protests here. Big, small. Doesn't matter. Where there are signs, there shall they be.

I'm a little surprised that people are surprised by it. It's kind of just an expected element of every protest I see in the Bay Area.

A bunch of people pissed off at the government and current establishment looking for someone to do something? Why wouldn't they look at those places to recruit? That's prime real estate for ideological advertising.

[Cirsium]

12. Putin is not a Communist

Putin is not a Communist, and Russia is not a Communist or Socialist country.

I don't know about the protesters you saw, but there are Communists and Socialists (not Social Democrats) in the US and have been all along, despite relentless propaganda and horrendous violence and suppression.

Claudia Jones Was a Giant in the Struggle Against Oppression

Throughout her lifetime, Claudia Jones organized where she lived, at the point where multiple struggles and forms of oppression came together. Her activism embraced the fight against colonialism, agitation for workers’ rights (and especially the rights of black women workers), and opposition to racism both domestic and international. She asserted the right of black women to play a role in those struggles as theorists and intellectuals.

Born in Trinidad and Tobago in 1915, Jones joined the Communist Party of the United States of America (CPUSA) in the 1930s and was the only black woman ever elected to its central committee. In 1952–53, the US authorities put her on trial for being a communist.

https://jacobin.com/2023/02/claudia-jones-communist-theory-black-feminism-internationalism

In Memory of Paul Robeson

Parallel to Robeson’s identity as a Pan-Africanist was his development as a Socialist. Robeson was profoundly affected by his experiences in the USSR. First arriving in Moscow in fall 1934, Robeson was welcomed by renowned Soviet filmmaker Sergei Eisenstein, his host, and was moved by the warm and ecstatic reception he received from artists, political officials, and everyday citizens. Personally, he wrote that for the first time in his life he could walk in full human dignity. In his landmark political statement, Here I Stand, Robeson asserted that the success of the USSR as an anti-capitalist political and economic system could serve as a model for Black revolutionary movements around the world seeking self determination. Furthermore, Robeson recognized that aid from the global powers of the USSR and China, which stood apart from US and Colonial Europe in their anti-colonialism, anti-imperialism, and anti-racism, could be valuable to Black liberation efforts throughout the world.

For his work and views as an anti-racist, anti-fascist, and anti-capitalist, Robeson was persecuted by the US Establishment, who barred him from concert halls, exorcised his name from awards and academic records at Rutgers University and elsewhere, refused to sell his records, and perpetuated misinformation and disinformation about his life, even going so far as to revoke his passport for 8 years at the height of his artistic career (1950-58).

https://www.theblackquakerproject.org/post/in-memory-of-paul-robeson-beleaguered-leader-1898-1976

Daniel De Leon

Daniel De Leon was born Dec. 14, 1852, on Curacao, a Dutch-owned island off the coast of Venezuela, and died in New York City on May 11, 1914. During the second half of this relatively brief life span of 61 years, De Leon devoted himself to the cause of working-class emancipation from capitalist exploitation. As editor of THE PEOPLE, from 1892 until his untimely death, De Leon developed the strategy and tactics needed to establish socialism by civilized, yet revolutionary, means in highly industrialized countries like the United States -- the Socialist Industrial Union program of the SLP.

That program, which also provides the outline of the democratic structure on which genuine socialism will be built, was not the work of a chairbound intellectual or theorist. It was developed on the foundation of hard-fought battles within and around the labor movement over a quarter century. Those battles were not fought by one man, but by an organization of men and women whose understanding of the class struggle and Marxist principles enabled them to build that foundation of experience.

http://www.deleonism.org/text/95120901.htm

Angela Davis’s Life’s Work Is Exposing State Repression

At the age of twenty-six, Angela Davis became one of the world’s most famous political prisoners and a revolutionary icon, her image as recognizable as that of Mao Zedong or Che Guevara. The circumstances that led to her imprisonment were complex and partly contrived.

In August 1970, several guns that were registered in Davis’s name had been brandished in an attempt to liberate three incarcerated black men at a courthouse in Marin County, California. After San Quentin prison guards opened fire, four people were killed, including a district judge. Davis had no prior knowledge of the events, but she was implicated on account of the guns.

More significantly, she was a known member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) and a rising black activist: the state wanted her dead or locked up. It issued an arrest warrant on charges of conspiracy, kidnapping, and murder, which carried the death penalty, and Davis was placed on the FBI’s most wanted list.

https://jacobin.com/2024/10/angela-davis-communism-abolition-marcuse

How I Became A Socialist
Jack London

It is quite fair to say that I became a Socialist in a fashion somewhat similar to the way in which the Teutonic pagans became Christians--it was hammered into me. Not only was I not looking for Socialism at the time of my conversion, but I was fighting it. I was very young and callow, did not know much of anything, and though I had never even heard of a school called "Individualism," I sang the paean of the strong with all my heart.

https://www.online-literature.com/london/3875/

Dust Bowl Troubadour: Who Was Woody Guthrie?

Woody Guthrie was a folk singer, songwriter, socialist, and chronicler of American working-class life. Born in Oklahoma, he spent a short time in Texas before escaping the Dust Bowl Depression for California, eventually settling in New York City. Guthrie became a radio star and went on to become a pivotal figure in the early American folk revival. His music, style, and politics had a profound influence on a range of musical icons, from Bob Dylan and Jonny Cash to Bruce Springsteen and Joe Strummer. Woody Guthrie is one of the most influential American folk musicians of the 20th century.

https://thecollector.vercel.app/dust-bowl-troubadour-who-was-woody-guthrie/

Carl Sandburg: The Socialist Poet of the People

Socialist, militant, radical: these words do not typically conjure images of the beloved Illinois poet, Carl Sandburg. Growing up in Wheaton, Illinois, a western Chicago suburb, I read Sandburg’s less controversial, and at times, edited poems, but for the most part, I knew very little about the man who is an American icon. While researching my Master’s thesis, I read commentary and poetry by Sandburg on the shipwreck of the S.S. Eastland, which sank in the Chicago River in 1915. It was Sandburg’s raw, passionate anger and vicious hatred toward the capitalists and elites of America that caught my attention. I needed to know and immerse myself in the works by this Carl Sandburg. This Carl Sandburg fought for stricter child labor laws, advocated for the workingman, supported the Socialist Party of America, and spewed out venomous words towards his enemies, and blurred the line between poetry and politics. I needed to understand why Sandburg’s legacy is not that of a political activist, something modern society undermines, but as a literary icon. This quest led me to uncover who and what influenced Sandburg’s political beliefs and why his biographers only briefly touch upon his socialist beliefs.

https://www.stephaniemriley.com/single-post/2015/09/01/carl-sandburg-the-socialist-poet-of-the-people

Remembering John Reed

This restless and brilliant American writer was above all a revolutionary leader of the Third International. Those who continue to struggle for the triumph of socialist revolutions with working class democracy are indebted to him, not only for his exemplary life as a militant activist; he also left us an essential book, “Ten Days That Shook the World.”

Reed's rich production as a publicist and historian was a direct result of his dedication to revolutionary militancy. In fact, He was a member of the Socialist Party USA. In April 1918, he followed the trial of the 101 members of the IWW (International Workers of the World). In September 1919 the SP split in two, John Reed leading the left wing which founded the Communist Workers Party. The following month he returned to Russia and became a member of the Executive Committee of the Third International.

http://www.socialistcore.org/2010/10/26/remembering-john-reed/

Upton Sinclair: An Unflinching Chronicler of the American Dream

Sinclair’s fervent belief in socialism was a driving force behind much of his work. His affiliation with the Socialist Party and his run for the governorship of California as a Democrat underscore his political convictions. However, his advocacy was not limited to his writing, as he was an active participant in various social movements.

https://summers-mbm.com/upton-sinclair-an-unflinching-chronicler-of-the-american-dream/

Claude M. Lightfoot: Communism and Black Liberation

Claude M. Lightfoot (1910–1991) was an African American author, Chicago resident, political candidate, and member of the Communist Party USA’s national committee. In 1986, he donated a collection of his papers to the Chicago History Museum.

In the wake of World War I, he joined Marcus Garvey’s Pan-Africanist movement, but he soon became convinced the ideology was unworkable. After a brief time at Virginia Union University—where he was expelled after the school discovered he did not have a high school diploma—he returned to Chicago in 1929.

Lightfoot joined the Democratic Party and helped found the Young Men’s Black Democratic Club in Chicago (1930). At this point in his political development, he was convinced that the answer to the plight of African Americans would be found in business enterprise. However, the Great Depression and the lack of progress and action regarding Black Americans’ financial and political standing convinced him otherwise.

In 1931, Lightfoot joined the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). In summer 1932, he attended a workers’ school organized by the Party, and later that year he ran for Illinois State Legislature on the Communist Party ticket and received 33,000 votes. By 1935, Lightfoot was a delegate to the Seventh World Congress of the Communist International in the Soviet Union.

https://www.chicagohistory.org/claude-m-lightfoot-communism-and-black-liberation/

[Figarosmom]

39. The best years of WI history

Were under Socialist administrations.

But they were no hippies.

[JanMichael]

47. Nice post thank you.

[bluescribbler]

13. There are no communists in the USA.

The Soviet Union was never a communist country. It was always an oligarchy pretending to be socialists.

[Cirsium]

46. See post #12

...

[hueymahl]

14. There are crazies on both the right and the left fringe

[Figarosmom]

18. No you are not over reacting

They were sent by someone, for propaganda purposes. You can bet photos of them will appear on social media and right wing news shows.

And hippies were not commies, many were Jesus freaks. But the right-wing view of a hippie was as a commie and back then right-wing agents did do exactly what you are describing to show they were indeed commies.

[Hekate]

19. Thank you for the validation. I do not stay awake at night worrying about commies, fake or otherwise...

On the other hand, I came of age when Nixon sent out moles to infiltrate anti-war groups. COINTELPRO was not a joke, any more than trump is.

Some of the replies in this thread are adorable. When I have a little time I’ll go back and read the earnest political history lessons.

[Figarosmom]

27. I was there too in the nixon years

[Hekate]

31. "He who does not remember the past is doomed to repeat it" applies to the Resistance as well

There are entities who do not wish us well, and that is and always has been true and real. Bad things are happening to good people all over this country — oddly enough, that is why we are resisting.

If we go forth thinking our part in this is going to be fluffy bunnies all the way, we are going to be in a world of hurt.

Thx again.

[Figarosmom]

37. Any time

[Marcuse]

20. The Communist Party USA still exists, but it has lost some institutional memory.

[dwayneb]

54. Ha - love the Firesign Theatre

[MayReasonRule]

21. Have You Ever Visited Portland Or Eugene Oregon?

I'm not saying the folks you saw were legit...

I'm also not saying the folks you saw were not legit...

Photographs would assist in determining.

There are folks that would most likely recognize them and be familiar with whom they associate.

[Hekate]

25. I don't take photos at rallies and marches. I have enough to do with my hands holding a sign

[MayReasonRule]

29. Understand Y'all... There Are A Lot Of Videos And Photos Circulating Of Various Rallies

If you happen to spot what you're referencing in one be sure to post it so we all can assist!

Happy Saturday and whatever else you do...

[Hekate]

33. I think my words are enough, and I've been here a long, long time

[MayReasonRule]

42. I Think You've Misundetstood... Not Doubting What You Saw...

Just offering to assist you in confirming it one way or another through folks that might know them personally.

Happy Saturday Hekate!

[SunSeeker]

23. You know your protest has reached effective mass when fringe groups show up.

I remember being a a large pro choice march in the early 1980s and about 6 people showed up wearing jeans and army jackets, carrying commercially printed "Communist Workers' Party" signs. They didn't seem to care about abortion, they were just there trying to get attention to their cause and handing out flyers with info about their next meeting.

Take it as a compliment that your protest has gotten attention.

[soldierant]

24. Putin is absolutely not a Communist,

and never was, but stopped calling himself one when the USSR dissolved. I don't know what would happen if you addressed him as "Comrade," but I wouldn't want to try.

He is all cozy with the Russian Orthodox Church, which is all cozy with him, past the point of starting to leak Christianity. I would call him a Christian Nationalist myself.

Marx's definition of communism - "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" - is a good description of the way the disciples tried to live after the Ascension, as described in the book of Acts. I say "tried" because they couldn't pull it off - and that is really my only issue with Communism - unless everyone in your group or nation is morally and ethically perfect, it will be abused and cannot last.

[AZProgressive]

26. I wouldn't worry about them

I saw some actual Communists handing out newsletters at the Bernie rally I went to.

I don't think Putin has anything to do with it. Russia is a right wing, capitalist, oligarchy type of country and that is at best. At worst Russia is a criminal syndicate which I actually think is more likely.

[Dan]

28. I'm thinking that these are not the Boogie men of the 50's.

[Hekate]

41. I'm thinking they presented as "off" -- not the real thing in any sense

So my OP question was framed to show that I didn’t think they were who they said they were. And, who were they really? To be blunt: they were anomalous. They looked fake. I mean they really looked fake. No boogie-men from the 1950s or any era I can think of.

In answer I have had several people try to give me a course in political history, some of which was erroneous, some of which was condescending, and some of which was a rehash of things I learned many, many decades ago.

No problem. It’s nice of people to take the time

[blm]

32. Republican operatives showed up as 'Communist Party' members supporting Gore, then Kerry.

Same as it ever was.

[stillcool]

34. it's what the GOP has always accused

Democrats of being. And they love repeat performances.

[live love laugh]

35. Who sent them? Who else but those who stand to gain from their presence.

[yourout]

36. Are they DOGE minions?

[johnnyfins]

38. I would say to the OP:

If something looks out of place at these protests, treat it like it is. Engage them amd ask them if they can define communism. They should be able to define it right away and speak in support of it. If not, and it sounds bullshitty, you will have your answer.

[applegrove]

40. Take a photo of their faces. Send it to local democratic headquarters

with a note of what, where, when and how it took place and what your suspicions are. I would think it would be solid MAGA who would play a role like that. Maybe your local demo office has people who know the local MAGAs.

[mopinko]

56. take pics w a flourish

i think there’s been some funny smelling fringe types in almost every protest i’ve ever been to.
i suppose some r misguided assholes, but most sure seemed like agitators to me.

i remember an ‘03 dc protest where there was a small group of guys in keffiyas, w a big isreali flag that they kept laying on the ground, and inviting ppl to walk on it.
they didnt get much traction at the time, but…
they smelled of money. nice clothes, shoes, etc.

document that shit. might not matter, but as this stuff ramps up, expect bullshit.

[subject]

43. I am

a democratic socialist

[Hekate]

55. The leader of the chapter of the VFP I worked with during BushCheney was a Wobbley

Takes all kinds. I myself am a lifelong Democrat.

[relayerbob]

44. Yes, they exist on the far left of the US

They are are out there with the anarchists who disrupt many events. These could also be agit-prop right wingers, however

Putin, and Russia, are not Communist, in any way. There is no "Party" apparatus, it's all just a giant dictatorship, with more in common to fascism than communism.

[OAITW r.2.0]

48. Political theater. Only far right morons think there is a place where true communists live.

They live in their brains. Been to "communist" China a bunch of times since the 90;s. I can say I've never met a communist "true believer". But capitalists? Oh yeah. I met lots of these folks.

[CitizenZero]

49. Possible Agent Provacateurs?

It would be interesting to find out if they were actual communists or right wing provacateurs. Might make a decent news story if we could show that there were actual right wingers pretending to be far left. If they are actual communists I think that they are pretty irrelevant. I used to know some back in my University days. They were mostly ex hippies that were not really influential or politically effective in any way. I kept my distance from them.

[orangecrush]

59. This

[electric_blue68]

50. On the Socialist type I'd see waaay back '70's...

OK born & bred NYC'r. 🙂👍

I went to Cooper Union which sat right at the "border" of The Village to it's west, and The East Village to it's east. Think St Marks Place. Art, Architecture, Engineering & Science College.

This area had a bunch of leftist groups HQs near by is what I'd heard.

So after you got past the big lobby in the front you'd be walking down a wide hallway. With a bit of a pure hallway, and walls. Then, almost immediately to your left was the big, open cafeteria, while on the right side doors to many offices.

So.... The Socialist Workers Party would plant themselves right in that first hallways space, and a bit past that by the cafeteria.

To me their problem was they were always dour looking(!!!); I had No interest in engaging them! Always angry looking. 🙄😄 Way to win hearts & minds, people!

I remember there was some demo right outside our school, but I don't think it was related to the school. I think I was a part of it, and of course the SWP were out with their newspaper. I think I took one.
Maybe I even read some of it.

My vague memory was it's ?stridency. Idk, I think if you're not just talking to "your" people, you might want to have a mix of tone in the articles chosen. Imho.

[electric_blue68]

51. So.... about Socialism & Communism...

So I went and reread about various socialism forms, and communism. I had no idea actually that some communists wanted to evolve to a staeless, moneyless society.

Socialism usually either workers, or The State owning the means of production. I wouldn't want The State owning them. As for the workers? Idk, maaaaybe, but not sure about every business. And how complex it might be to do that over all.
Wikipedia's comment was often it took a lot authoritarianism to effect such business conditions. Well, screw that!

Other people feel it would stifle innovation without the reward of profit.

Social Democrats seemed to refer to The Scandinavian countries (I'll triple check)

As for Professor Davis. All her Communistic spouting tropes just off put me.

Might eta.

So they mentioned that Democratic Socialists view achieving Socialism through more incremental change vs Revolution which other socialists want.

[W_HAMILTON]

52. It ain't like the fascist MAGAts are above using photoshop for propaganda purposes...

...so, I wouldn't worry about that.

If they were protesting alongside you all and weren't causing trouble, more power to them.

[orangecrush]

58. Provocateurs

Same as the 60's.

[Hekate]

60. So you, also, remember

[orangecrush]

63. Very much so.

[Galraedia]

61. What's the point of pointing out they're communists? It's irrelevant unless their purpose it to discredit.

Like okay, you're communists but wtf does that have to do with why everyone is there? They didn't come with the intention to protest but rather to put out irrelevant information about themselves.