I don't look here much anymore, but I will say democratic leaders are not acting

[Eliot Rosewater]

They realize we are in constitutional crisis, which, of course we are.

I am one of the people here on this message board who could be counted on to unconditionally support the party 100% of the time I am now wondering if they are even gonna try and save us.

Because of the “save act“ many of you will not be able to vote in the future or your parents and grandparents won’t be able to, but at least don’t badmouth whoever the Democratic candidate is from now on, this only applies to a minority of people, but it does apply.

I don’t know which Democratic politicians are aggressively and assertively and every day in the face of the Nazis are trying to get on television or whatever yelling that we are in a constitutional crisis and I’m sure some are, but I assume most are not.

[Wiz Imp]

1. The Save Act has not been and will not be passed by the Senate

It's never going to happen.

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. Really, so the only way it could pass is if McConnell gets rid of the

Filibuster right?

I am asking because I don’t know for sure.

[Ms. Toad]

4. The senate has to get rid of it,

Or there have to be 60 votes for cloture to get past a filibuster of a specific bill.

[Eliot Rosewater]

6. Unless McConnell gets rid of the filibuster, right?

[Ms. Toad]

7. McConnell doesn't have the right to unilaterally end the filibuster.

Generally, it takes a vote of the senate to change the cloture rules - a vote, that itself, requires approval of 2/3 of the senate.

[Wiz Imp]

9. 2/3 vote is NOT needed. Otherwise the filibuster would never have been removed from Judicial and other Nominations,

excluding the Supreme Court, then later for Supreme Court nominations as well.

This is what's called the Nuclear Option and it requires only a simple majority vote.

The nuclear option can be invoked by a senator raising a point of order that contravenes a standing rule. The presiding officer would then overrule the point of order based on Senate rules and precedents; this ruling would then be appealed and overturned by a simple majority vote (or a tie vote), establishing a new precedent. The nuclear option is made possible by the principle in Senate procedure that appeals from rulings of the chair on points of order relating to nondebatable questions are themselves nondebatable.  The nuclear option is most often discussed in connection with the filibuster. Since cloture is a nondebatable question, an appeal in relation to cloture is decided without debate. This obviates the usual requirement for a two-thirds majority to invoke cloture on a resolution amending the Standing Rules.

The nuclear option was invoked on November 21, 2013, when a Democratic majority led by Harry Reid used the procedure to reduce the cloture threshold for nominations, other than nominations to the Supreme Court, to a simple majority. On April 6, 2017, the nuclear option was used again, this time by a Republican majority led by Mitch McConnell, to extend that precedent to Supreme Court nominations, in order to enable cloture to be invoked on the nomination of Neil Gorsuch by a simple majority.

The use of the nuclear option to abolish the 60-vote threshold for cloture on legislation has been proposed, but not successfully effected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_option

[Ms. Toad]

11. You obviously missed the word "generally" in my response.

I put it there for a reason. What you are referring to is called the nuclear option for a reason. It is not common, and not something either party would use lightly.

[Wiz Imp]

13. You said the filibuster rules can't be changed unilaterally which is misleading if not outright false.

Contrary to your implication, the majority party (led by the majority leader) DOES have the power to unilaterally change the filibuster rules.

[Ms. Toad]

14. I said McConnell can't change them unilaterally.

He can't. The process in the Wikipedia article you quoted isn't McConnell taking unilateral action.

[Eliot Rosewater]

15. Are you relying on this Republican Party not to use the nuclear option?

Please tell me you believe with your entire heart that they will do absolutely anything if they feel they will be harmed by Trump or not reelected if they don’t, please tell me everybody understands that now!

[Ms. Toad]

19. I don't think they will use it for the SAVE act.

They all have people in their families who will be impacted by the SAVE act. Women changing their names when they marry is probably significantly more common in Republican households than in Democratic ones.

The nuclear option is not something that is used lightly, and every single time it has been deployed (by either party) was in connection with presidential nominees, not legislation.

[Eliot Rosewater]

21. To ASSURE all will be reelected? I say there is no chance they wont, let's see who is right.

I hope to any GOD YOU are right.

The poll tax of proof of citizenship alone guarantees it.

[Wiz Imp]

26. Here's what they released at the beginning of the session in January as their priority Bills:

For compliance with “title IX” in athletics, to define sex based solely on a person’s reproductive biology and genetics at birth (a version passed in 2023)

To take into custody non-citizens who have been charged with theft.

To make sex offenses and domestic violence deportable offenses. (a version passed in 2024)

To make the assault of a law enforcement officer a deportable offense (a version passed in 2023)

To withhold federal funding that goes to “sanctuary cities” to benefit undocumented immigrants (a version passed in 2024)

New criminal and immigration penalties for intentionally fleeing a pursuing Federal officer while operating a motor vehicle (a version passed in 2024)

To prohibit a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion (a version passed in 2023)

To sanction the International Criminal Court for issuing an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, or if it investigates, arrests, detains, or prosecutes any American or ally of the United States. (a version passed in 2024)

A likely-bipartisan bill to fix double-taxation of residents of Taiwan who pay U.S. taxes

To require proof of United States citizenship to register an to vote (a version passed in 2024)

To amend the Controlled Substances Act with respect to the scheduling of fentanyl (a version passed in 2023)

To prohibit a moratorium on the use of hydraulic fracturing (a version passed in 2024)

Three of these have already failed to overcome the filibuster in the Senate. The SAVE act will join that group if they ever bring it to the floor for a vote. Their primary argument for the SAVE act is to require proof of citizenship to vote. Trump already signed an executive order requiring that so theoretically the SAVE act isn't even necessary. Now Trump's EO will likely be overturned by the courts eventually but it isn't a top priority to address since it won't impact anything until 2026 anyway. And if/when they do that, the courts may well make it clear that the provisions of the SAVE act are unconstitutional.

I can assure you 100% that the Republicans will NOT abolish the filibuster in order to pass the SAVE act. The legislation will be very unpopular with the general public. It is simply not a hill worth dying for.

[Eliot Rosewater]

27. So the executive order will end up at the supreme court where they will uphold it

Regardless of the fact that it’s unconstitutional and a poll tax.

It can be appealed all the way to the Supreme Court I assume? If so, why in the world would anyone think that the Supreme Court would do the right thing?

[ancianita]

31. The SC has overruled Trump, by my count. One is the Abrego Garcia case; another is the USAID case.

Two sources... the second stays updated, so you can refresh the URL to get the latest
https://archive.ph/iGTl4

https://www.justsecurity.org/107087/tracker-litigation-legal-challenges-trump-administration/

[Wiz Imp]

33. The Supreme Court has been ruling against Trump quite frequently when it comes to cases involving over reach.

Particularly, the Abrego Garcia case and relating to the alien enemies act. There is strong reason the believe the Supreme Court will do the right thing when it comes to such a black and white issue as proof of citizenship to vote - clearly a poll tax which is explicitly prohibited by the constitution.

[William769]

22. You do know he's not the Majority leader anymore? John Thune is.

[Eliot Rosewater]

23. Did not know , dont and cant watch news anymore, my heart cant take it.

I am sorry I did not know that, however, it’s not really important to the overall big picture is it about what is likely to happen.

[William769]

24. I literally just got out of the hospital with congestive heart failure but I make my heart take it.

Let the warning ride forth once more; tyranny is at our door"!

[Wiz Imp]

8. Correct. But it's Thune who's majority leader, not McConnell

They will not abolish the filibuster for this piece of legislation. They may do it for some other legislation in the future, but so far during this term (since January), Republicans are legislating purely by Presidential Executive Order.

The Senate has voted on a total of ONLY 5 Bills so far this year which were subject to the filibuster. 3 of them the cloture motions failed so the bills couldn't pass. 2 of them, the cloture vote was successful so they were passed. Those 2 are these:

Bill: S. 5, As Amended; A bill to require the Secretary of Homeland Security to take into custody aliens who have been charged in the United States with theft, and for other purposes was passed by a vote of 64-35.

Bill: S. 331, as amended; A bill to amend the Controlled Substances Act with respect to the scheduling of fentanyl-related substances, and for other purposes. was passed by a vote of 84-16.


The 3 that failed were:

S.6; A bill to amend title 18, United States Code, to prohibit a health care practitioner from failing to exercise the proper degree of care in the case of a child who survives an abortion or attempted abortion.

H.R. 23; A bill to impose sanctions with respect to the International Criminal Court engaged in any effort to investigate, arrest, detain, or prosecute any protected person of the United States and its allies.

S. 9; A bill to provide that for purposes of determining compliance with title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 in athletics, sex shall be recognized based solely on a person's reproductive biology and genetics at birth.

Those 3 cloture motions got a grand total of 1 Democratic vote combined.

[Eliot Rosewater]

16. Thanks, when I wrote that, I wondered if McConnell still was

I haven’t watched one minute of news since election day because I got chest pains and now it’s high blood pressure so I have to ask a lot of questions cause I simply can’t.

Unfortunately I get a lot from friends on FB so I cant avoid it.

[Celerity]

18. You probably mean Thune, who is now the Senate Leader. McTurtle stepped down as Leader.

[Eliot Rosewater]

20. Thanks, I have not watched one minute of news since the day democracy died last Nov...

[Celerity]

25. The Day The Country Died

Subhumans - Black and White (1983)

Label: Spiderleg Records – SDL 9
Format: Vinyl, LP, Album
Country: UK
Released: Jan 1983
Genre: Rock
Style: Punk

[DFW]

32. I heard the same from a friend who is a member of the Senate

He said that in its current form, it had “all kinds of problems.”

[ancianita]

3. Does this information alter your assumptions? It comes from at least eight news sources.

https://democrats.org/news/icymi-democrats-launch-second-peoples-town-halls-nationwide-blitz-to-continue-holding-gop-accountable-for-hurting-working-families/

Nine billboards by DNC
https://lh7-rt.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXcVwz2s_zN2ss0uKuHbGcSkgMM2tmVC2C6hQesyafqVX_A6aNlwgk6opwwuHt1GM3ziy3pOZcYInJqcexY7dHapqd3yE0DpgVQIq7JgY95NiKQFcpwsA8l6MlV24mmBLBo7KRTN?key=qgrW3PBbOI34nFTsor9MNdFc

Digital reports on Democrats out there with The People from ...
The Hill, Reuters, Spectrum News, CNN, ABC, Newsweek, Politico, Notus, NBC, The New York Times,
Good Morning America, News Nation, USA Today, MSNBC

AOC & Bernie at rallies of tens of thousands of people in five states,
Tim Walz speaking in other states in large venues,
22 Town halls across 13 states; e.g., Ro Khanna, Rep. Angie Craig (MN), Cory Booker, Chris Murphy, Eric Swalwell, Jamie Raskin, Robt. Garcia, etc.

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. That's great to see, I will look closer later tonight when I have more time

[ancianita]

10. Okay. Because I don't know how much

time you took to write the OP, but even if things look depressing right now, and people might fear or vent too much, it just seems logical that the same amount of time each day spent checking the Main Page, NYT, Guardian, or YouTube would easily get you the information just posted. Just sayin'.

[Eliot Rosewater]

17. CAnt watch news, chest pains on election day and now from just going on FB and seeing

my friends post stuff it is high blood pressure.

What I dont see there is the stuff you provided, at all. I believe that it is happening now that I have looked at it, and am grateful.

I still think the media and our politicians need to be in constant URGENT form as to the emergency we are in. I dont know if I see that or hear from others that it is happening.


I have had 3 stents in 15 years, the magats and the piece of shit in the WH might kill me without laying a hand on me, if they dont Kennedy will when he prevents all of us from getting any vax including flu next winter.

That moron is the last word on whether or not any of us can ever have any vaccine ever again, so why would someone who believes, stupidly, that all vaccines are more harmful than the disease they treat allow us to have any at all?

[gab13by13]

12. Don't back down Eliot

Chuck Schumer appeared on Chris Hayes and stated that his reason for voting for the CR was to make sure that Republicans get blamed for everything that Trump is doing. If the Senate had voted against the CR then Democrats would be blamed for what Trump is doing.

Schumer then said that by letting Trump burn everything down Democrats will win back Congress in 2026. (paraphrasing)

Schumer recently touted that he has been vindicated for his vote since Trump has become so unpopular.

[W_HAMILTON]

29. 1.8% of Democrats voted for the SAVE Act.

Why are you complaining about the party and its leaders over the actions of less than 2% of Democratic legislators?

We could have had 0% vote for this bill and we would be in no better or worse position than we currently are.

Every moment spent going after Democrats and not Trump and his fascist MAGAts is a moment wasted.

[Eliot Rosewater]

30. I never once mentioned the Democratic Party and the save act,

I mentioned the save act only in relation to the disgusting, treacherous Republican Party and the Supreme Court and the piece of shit in the White House, I assumed the Democrats were fighting against it and I continue to assume that.

In fact, I even assumed not one Democrat voted for it.

The fucking save act exists from a political MOB that intends to eliminate millions and millions of people who vote for Democrats.

As I reread what I wrote, I can see how it could be misconstrued that I was bringing up the save act having something to do with the Democratic Party, but absolutely not I can assure you absolutely not.

[mucholderthandirt]

34. They're just out for themselves, but we should keep voting for them no matter what.

They have no good reason other than "they aren't the other guys", which frankly, judging by how they act most of the time, simply isn't true. They use nicer words, and longer explanations but in the end they'd rather put their hand across the aisle and get back nubs than stand up for us or the country.

America as we knew it -- or more importantly wanted it to become -- is dead. The longer Trump and Project 2025 keep on, with the help of someone who otherwise would be deported, the worse it's going to be to even try to start rebuilding.

The world thinks we're a joke and a danger to them. They are right. They should just band together and refuse to have anything to do with us. Let us fall. Maybe in a few decades we'll be worth talking to again. But probably not. MAGA rules us now. Sanity and compassion are not wanted here anymore.