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Middle Age Riot is onto something. (Original Post) Swede Yesterday OP
Evil Clowns weren't a thing in 1776. Kid Berwyn Yesterday #1
Look up Pulcinella Geechie 22 hrs ago #7
Thanks! Fear of creepy clowns must be in human DNA. Kid Berwyn 22 hrs ago #8
Pantagruel, like Trump .. a goutish lout, no doubt. Bo Zarts 20 hrs ago #15
"goutish" MorbidButterflyTat 15 hrs ago #20
Actually, I think the thing they didn't foresee was that an entire party would capitulate to an authoritarian. CrispyQ Yesterday #2
They didn't want there to be any parties at all soldierant 15 hrs ago #18
That's exactly what I've been thinking William Seger 23 hrs ago #3
You have to remember Hieronymus Phact 22 hrs ago #4
Really? Beowulf42 21 hrs ago #11
Yes Really Hieronymus Phact 21 hrs ago #13
They got a few things wrong Sugarcoated 9 hrs ago #27
Yes they did Hieronymus Phact 9 hrs ago #28
Idiocracy has come true. n/t SpankMe 22 hrs ago #5
They only wanted White, land owning men to vote... progressoid 22 hrs ago #6
They wanted a weapon to hurt the people they hated, and address their grievances. patphil 22 hrs ago #9
Actually, some of the founders were very worried about the possibility of a populist being elected by dumb voters. Martin68 22 hrs ago #10
True, but it was a bad idea that has actually made Whyisthisstillclose 21 hrs ago #12
The other reason for the electoral college was to protect slavery. NNadir 53 min ago #31
This picture makes me want to punch his ugly vile face doing his jerk of dance kimbutgar 20 hrs ago #14
Eloquent! MorbidButterflyTat 15 hrs ago #21
I am still shocked that anyone voted for this idiot LetMyPeopleVote 17 hrs ago #16
They probably also believed that... LudwigPastorius 15 hrs ago #17
Stupidity itself can be just as bad if not worse than pure evil DSandra 15 hrs ago #19
They had classical educations, and the Greeks and Romans had plenty of such characters... JHB 15 hrs ago #22
or that an entire political party would pimp for something like that Skittles 14 hrs ago #23
Tyrant CitizenZero 14 hrs ago #24
American voters are this stupid or maybe not so stupid...... SupportSanity 13 hrs ago #25
Or that the GOP, or any other party, would behave with willful abonnement of all principles in the face of such lunacy Ford_Prefect 13 hrs ago #26
They weren't all that smart if true... Meowmee 8 hrs ago #29
Even if they could have there is no solution for stupidity in a democratic government. D23MIURG23 1 hr ago #30

Kid Berwyn

(20,066 posts)
1. Evil Clowns weren't a thing in 1776.
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 09:06 AM
Yesterday

Snopes hasn’t touched this one, for some reason.

Geechie

(1,008 posts)
7. Look up Pulcinella
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 11:08 AM
22 hrs ago

He’s been in commedia dell'arte for at least that long. Actually I’ve been thinking a lot about how Krasnov resembles this character. (Also: Punch)

Kid Berwyn

(20,066 posts)
8. Thanks! Fear of creepy clowns must be in human DNA.
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 11:24 AM
22 hrs ago

One monstrously funny fellow I heard tell about: Pantagruel.



The American Pantagruel has declared himself the enemy of the United States.

LUCIAN K. TRUSCOTT IV
FEB 19, 2025

It took us just thirty days into the second administration of Donald J. Trump to reach a signature moment in American history. In calling Volodymyr Zelenskyy a dictator and accusing him of starting the war that his country has suffered through from Russian aggression for nearly three years, Trump has loudly and clearly taken the side of a real dictator against our ally, Ukraine. It's no longer as if Trump is acting like a Russian asset. He has raised the white, blue, and red flag of Russia over the White House. In military terms, Trump has switched sides and begun firing from Russian lines at American troops.

Snip…

There is only one good thing about what Trump has done over the last two days. One of the readers of this column, Reed Bonadonna, put it better than I could in his comment today, which I will quote in full:

“As a military type, I feel a sense of excitement that the enemy has declared itself, looming like a hideous, toupéed Pantagruel. This, I begin to wondering see, is the battle for which we have always been preparing ourselves.”

I had to look up Pantagruel to discover how apt is Bonadonna’s comparison of Trump with this character created by Francois Rabelais in 1532. Pantagruel first appeared in his book, The Horrible and Terrifying Deeds and Words of the Very Renowned Pantagruel King of the Dipsodes, Son of the Great Giant Gargantua.

Rabelais has been described by critic John Parkin, author of “The Rabelais Encyclopedia” as “the world's greatest comic genius,” and his grand series of books about Pantagruel are seen as championing "the advancement of humanist learning, the evangelical reform of the Church, [and] the need for humanity and brotherhood in politics.” I mean, how perfect is it to compare Donald Trump to a character from the 16th century who used his own urine as a weapon in war and his tongue to shelter his army?

Humor may provide a lens through which we can consider anew this hideous monster who has been elected to the highest office in our land. But it is the fact that he has declared himself an enemy of his own country and indeed of all civilized human beings that marks this date as one we should remember and act upon.

We need to take comfort in the idea that our history has prepared us for a battle such as this one. We have risen to the occasion before, once to fight a Civil War to free enslaved human beings and make them our fellow citizens. Freedom is at stake again, this time for all of us. Donald Trump has declared himself our enemy. It is past time to square the circle and fight.

Continues…

https://luciantruscott.substack.com/p/the-american-pantagruel-has-declared

PS/ETA: Appreciate learning about Pulcinella, originally a symbol for the people and strata of Naples, is the Trickster — a role I believe different in character and nature from evil personified as the case with Mussolini, Hitler and Trump.

Bo Zarts

(25,973 posts)
15. Pantagruel, like Trump .. a goutish lout, no doubt.
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 12:54 PM
20 hrs ago

And coulrophobia is widespread in the human population. Among dogs and cats too. Smart ones.

CrispyQ

(39,507 posts)
2. Actually, I think the thing they didn't foresee was that an entire party would capitulate to an authoritarian.
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 09:33 AM
Yesterday

I'm surprised, too. Sometimes I wonder if John McCain would have had the will & the ability to build a coalition that could have stood up to Trump or would he have given in, too?

William Seger

(11,550 posts)
3. That's exactly what I've been thinking
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 10:37 AM
23 hrs ago

As a nation, we will now suffer the consequences of collectively failing our national intelligence test on November 5.

Hieronymus Phact

(581 posts)
4. You have to remember
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 10:52 AM
22 hrs ago

The original constitution didn't allow everyone to vote.
Only male landholders could vote, so masses of morons voting for dictatorship wasn't a concern.

Beowulf42

(255 posts)
11. Really?
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 11:49 AM
21 hrs ago

Most of the MALE LANDHOLDERS I know and have met voted for Lord Loudmouth, and would do so again. Not a very good analysis of how this all came about.

Hieronymus Phact

(581 posts)
13. Yes Really
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 12:17 PM
21 hrs ago

Sorry if history doesn't comport with your modern experiences. Oddly those guys didn't get all their information from fox news, and even had some critical thinking skills.

Hieronymus Phact

(581 posts)
28. Yes they did
Fri Apr 25, 2025, 12:28 AM
9 hrs ago

But they left us with a good start.
They left us a document that included its own methods to change itself.
We changed it to extend the right to vote to everyone.

progressoid

(51,314 posts)
6. They only wanted White, land owning men to vote...
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 11:06 AM
22 hrs ago

Adams talked about it with James Sullivan, a state court judge in Massachusetts

May 26, 1776

It is certain in theory, that the only moral foundation of government is the [agreement] of the people, but to what an extent shall we carry this principle? Shall we say, that every individual of the community, old and young, male and female, as well as rich and poor, must [agree] to every act of legislation?...

Is it not equally true, that men in general in every society, who [are poor and do not own property], are also [unfamiliar] with public affairs to form a right judgment, and too dependent upon other men to have a will of their own? …Few men, who have no property, have any judgment of their own. They talk and vote as they are directed by some man of property, who has attached their minds to his interest.

Depend upon it, sir, it is dangerous to open [such a] source of controversy and altercation, as would be opened by attempting to [change] the qualifications of voters. There will be no end of it. New claims will arise. Women will demand a vote. Lads from 12 to 21 will think their rights not enough attended to, and every man, who has not a [dime], will demand an equal voice with any other in all acts of state. It tends to confound and destroy all distinctions, and [surrender] all ranks, to one common level.

https://shec.ashp.cuny.edu/items/show/1645

patphil

(7,714 posts)
9. They wanted a weapon to hurt the people they hated, and address their grievances.
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 11:34 AM
22 hrs ago

But, like Frankenstein's monster, it's proving to be uncontrollable, and is harming the MAGA's as much as the rest of us.
Just ask Governor Sanders of Arkansas who's request for aid, after sever weather did so much damage to her state, was denied.
Trump has no concern for anyone who can't help him.
He's always been transactional in his approach; one big quid pro quo.
Now as the king he perceived himself to be, that has gotten much more one sided. His megalomania is coming to the fore front.
It will be his downfall, but it may take the nation down with him.

The question is: will the Republicans in Congress become "woke" to his violent, destructive ways and act to stop him, or will they wait until the ship sinks and try to find a lifeboat?

Martin68

(25,516 posts)
10. Actually, some of the founders were very worried about the possibility of a populist being elected by dumb voters.
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 11:42 AM
22 hrs ago

That's why they invented the electoral College, as a buffer between dumb voters and the presidency. Unfortunately, that didn't work.

12. True, but it was a bad idea that has actually made
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 12:13 PM
21 hrs ago

our situation worse. The Founding Fathers couldn't foresee a country of 350 million people, many of them not too bright.

NNadir

(35,634 posts)
31. The other reason for the electoral college was to protect slavery.
Fri Apr 25, 2025, 08:51 AM
53 min ago

It worked for a while.

LudwigPastorius

(12,261 posts)
17. They probably also believed that...
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 05:48 PM
15 hrs ago

the media, as they knew it, would more or less accurately deliver the news to voters.

And, that the competition in the marketplace of ideas would never be strangled by national and global corporate entities in the furtherance of their own interests.

DSandra

(1,571 posts)
19. Stupidity itself can be just as bad if not worse than pure evil
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 06:00 PM
15 hrs ago

And the worst combination is both evil and stupid.

JHB

(37,634 posts)
22. They had classical educations, and the Greeks and Romans had plenty of such characters...
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 06:24 PM
15 hrs ago

That's part of why there were checks and balances built in. But they did expect people in Congress to have minds of their own and not just slavishly follow along.

CitizenZero

(822 posts)
24. Tyrant
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 07:16 PM
14 hrs ago

They probably could not have predicted a Clown, but they definitely predicted a Tyrant. We need to do to Trump what we did to King George back in the 1700s.

SupportSanity

(1,396 posts)
25. American voters are this stupid or maybe not so stupid......
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 08:04 PM
13 hrs ago

It's all about the vote and was everyone's vote represented?

https://electiontruthalliance.org
@electiontruth.bsky.social‬

These guys are data and statistical experts. They've been sifting through the election data and the conclusions so far are not good. But they keep chugging along.

The problem is the race. Trump is racing away to become dictator and these guys are under-funded and under-represented.
So if Trump succeeds in becoming a dictator before the truth becomes viral, it doesn't really matter what these guys find.

Take a look. See what you think.

Ford_Prefect

(8,344 posts)
26. Or that the GOP, or any other party, would behave with willful abonnement of all principles in the face of such lunacy
Thu Apr 24, 2025, 08:12 PM
13 hrs ago

and abject corruption.

D23MIURG23

(3,130 posts)
30. Even if they could have there is no solution for stupidity in a democratic government.
Fri Apr 25, 2025, 08:12 AM
1 hr ago

Democracy implicitly means trusting the average person with the decision making. The only way to idiot proof a democracy is to make it less democratic.

In a way the framers did anticipate this, because they rejected direct democracy in favor of elected representation, and put restrictions on who could vote, and who could run. And most of the voting restrictions have been rolled back because they were discriminatory.

Nothing is a silver bullet when half the country wants to elect someone who is obviously unfit.

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