We're already past the beginning of the Nazi/Holocaust, we're already several stages in.

[Swede]

[Initech]

1. People say we're in 1933 Germany.

Hell no, we're in 1939 Germany and I feel like this administration is about to do something really catastrophic. In addition to the thousands of laws and treaties and other rights they've violated.

[OneGrassRoot]

15. Exactly. In 2018 I said it was 1933 Germany. n/t

[Cosmocat]

26. Same here

just posted similar ...

[Initech]

32. Now it feels like we're in 1940 Germany and he's about to do something catastrophic.

[MiHale]

56. Some sort of attack, protest, real or false ...

To set up martial law and cancel the midterms. He has to cancel them otherwise all the first 2 years are worthless to him. He needs to stay out of jail, not get impeached, deliver the rest of P 2025 or parts of it.
Can’t elections get in the way.

And increase wealth, plus keep Putin happy.

[TnDem]

91. Midterms will not be cancelled

This same diatribe has been posted on here every single election for the 20+ years I have been on this forum....The dummies on the other side do the same thing.

The midterms will not be cancelled.

[bdamomma]

57. Let's get

him in a yacht, in shark infested water!!!

[Cosmocat]

25. Personally I was telling people were were Germany 1933 8 years ago

in his first term ...

So, yeah, it is well past that.

[hedda_foil]

47. 8 years from 1933 1941. The year before the Wansea Conference and the Final Solution.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/wannsee-conference-and-the-final-solution

On January 20, 1942, 15 high-ranking Nazi Party and German government officials gathered at a villa in the Berlin suburb of Wannsee to discuss and coordinate the implementation of what they called the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question."

The "Final Solution" was the code name for the systematic, deliberate, physical annihilation of the European Jews. At some still undetermined time in 1941, Adolf Hitler authorized this European-wide scheme for mass murder. Heydrich convened the Wannsee Conference:

-to inform and secure support from government ministries and other interested agencies relevant to the implementation of the “Final Solution”
-to disclose to the participants that Hitler himself had tasked Heydrich and the RSHA with coordinating the operation

The men at the table did not deliberate whether such a plan should be undertaken, but instead discussed the implementation of a policy decision that had already been made at the highest level of the Nazi regime.

Coordinating the "Final Solution"
At the time of the Wannsee Conference, most participants were already aware that the Nazi regime had engaged in mass murder of Jews and other civilians in the German-occupied areas of the Soviet Union and in Serbia. Some had learned of the actions of the Einsatzgruppen and other police and military units, which were already slaughtering tens of thousands of Jews in the German-occupied Soviet Union. Others were aware that units of the German Army and the SS and police were killing Jews in Serbia. None of the officials present at the meeting objected to the "Final Solution" policy that Heydrich announced.

[Dixiegrrrl]

34. In June he said he wanted more camps.

This is not gonna stop.

[wnylib]

59. So true. And it's not gonna stop with undocumented migrants or documented immigrants.

The roundups by the Trump Gestapo will move on to citizens who disagree with the dictatorship that Trump is rapidly solidifying for himself.

[Easterncedar]

2. I don't want to be a passive witness

How can we stop this?!

[bdamomma]

62. I am hoping for

whistleblowers. I'm hoping Little Nazi Stephen Miller pays dearly.

[Oopsie Daisy]

3. No.

[niyad]

10. Explain, please. Simply denying facts does not negate them.

[Oopsie Daisy]

18. No explanation needed. Simply repeating false claims does not make them facts.

Call me later when there are cremation ovens, mass grave trenches, execution walls and gas chambers... then we can talk. Okay?

[niyad]

19. Denial is not a river in Egypt. But keep telling yourself whatever lets

you sleep. Such a blessing.

[Oopsie Daisy]

22. Where are the gas chambers and cremation ovens and mass graves?

Denial indeed. 😂🤣🥱🙄

[Swede]

23. They're coming.

After they realize, like the Nazis, what the final solution to the “problem “

[Oopsie Daisy]

29. Nope.

[DENVERPOPS]

35. Sorry,

couldn't help but think of all those hungry alligators and huge snakes that need feeding..........I wouldn't any longer put ANYTHING past this crowd of MAGAots...

The Florida State Patrol, 100 of them are guarding the road to the installation, and Trump supposedly has already requested or installed a thousand U.S. Military to "Guard" the concentration camp, with more of them being planned....

Out of sight, out of mind..........

[TnDem]

92. Who?

What is the "Florida State patrol"?

Do you mean the "Florida Highway Patrol" or the "Florida State Guard" or the "Florida National Guard"?

All three are different entities with different missions paid by different funds, or in the case of the Florida State Guard, not paid at all.

[DENVERPOPS]

94. Not really sure

how about you drop by the road entrance to the camp and check...........make sure to wear a MAGA red hat and stay away from the huge snakes and alligators.....

[MadameButterfly]

30. The deaths don't have to happen the same way

We are already hearing numbers for how many people will die from closing of USAID. Additional deaths from cutting Medicaid. We don't have any count yet for deaths from El Salvador prisons and others being built in places like Sudan. Deaths, torture, permanent imprisonment with no due process or inspections. Right now it's immigrants, but if we can't stop that, it will expand to others. Ignoring climate change and the environment will cause deaths. Safety regulations being repealed. Medical research unfunded. He is blackmailing the press and defunding universities. Watch out Greenland, Canada, Panama.

I'm not saying he will succeed in going as far as Hitler. The US is far more educated and economically stable than Weimar Germany. Germans had little experience then of democracy, had been lied to by propaganda in WWI that they were winning so many were convinced the leadership had given away victory. While we have a lied to population here, at least half the population are informed.

We are different, but Trump is pretty much Hitler, if we let him. But his threat won't come in the form of gas chambers.

[cornball 24]

37. EXACTLY!

[uponit7771]

42. False, it didn't ***START*** that way ... you know this or should seeing you're arguing the point

[hedda_foil]

48. They did not come until 1942, but preparations were made in the years preceding.

[Oopsie Daisy]

50. The great effort given to splitting hairs reveals the weakness of these claims, and lets me know that I'm correct.

It's bad, yes. I never argued differently, but it's NOT a concentration camp, it's not Auschwitz. To be clear, I understand the desire to emphasize the seriousness of the situation, I worry that such comparisons can be perceived as diminishing the experiences of those who suffered and died in actual concentration camps.

As I've said in other posts, the use of this type of hyperbolic language (that can be easily disproved) can undermine the credibility of our concerns and make it more challenging to have a productive discussion about the issues at hand. I'm also concerned that if we establish a pattern of exaggeration, it may become harder to be taken seriously in the future.

I believe we can effectively advocate for humane treatment and address the concerns without resorting to comparisons that may be perceived as exaggerated or insensitive. By using precise language and focusing on the specific issues, we can have a more nuanced and effective discussion.

All I'm trying to say is that y'all can call it what you want, but that doesn't make it true. I understand it's upsetting and that you're trying to "make a point" but that still doesn't make it true.

[uponit7771]

51. No, you're not correct the OP has beginning and stages in it while you're arguing against that point with Nazi end ...

... metrics.

Reread the OP and think again please

[Oopsie Daisy]

53. Hyper parsing words in that way, again, reveals the weakness in the arguments being made.

I do not believe this helps us and I'm saying so. Others think that the hair-on-fire rhetoric helps... well... my objections will certainly not stop them. --- I've made my positions clear. Y'all can hate on me until the cows come home, but I'm not going to join the cacophonous off-key chorus of voices comparing it to a Nazi concentration camp. We know what REAL concentration camps look like, and this isn't it.

"Oh, but Oopsie... it could someday BECOME just like a Nazi Concentration Camp. How dare you?"

Well... my point is that it's NOT one now.

[uponit7771]

58. That's not hyper parsing, the OP was clear; "beginning ... " end point Nazi was some other level shit but they started .

... of with deportations.

[Oopsie Daisy]

61. I've made my point. I'm done with you.

I have other things to do.

[Pacifist Patriot]

67. So the fact that it is their intent but isn't there yet is the hair you want to split?

They aren't hiding it! What the hell???

[Oopsie Daisy]

68. Calling things what they are not solves nothing. This solves nothing. It changes nothing.

As I said just a moment ago, we've reached an impasse. I'm done with you. I have other things to do. Good bye.

[Girard442]

54. First of all, it is *literally* a concentration camp as per the dictionary definition.

Second of all, you don't need gas chambers to cause mass death -- just overcrowding, malnutrition, overwork, and communicable diseases. That's one lesson that was clear from the Holocaust and the Gulag.

If you want more evidence that mass death is in the plans: it's a tent city built on flat ground in hurricane territory with only one road out.

[Oopsie Daisy]

60. It is LITERALLY not a concentration camp in the way that it's being compared to Nazi Concentration Camps *

* the fact that anyone wants to split hairs and parse words like this (when others are using them in a way that is clearly meant to evoke the Nazi camps) again, indicates that someone is arguing from a position of weakness. The Japanese-American internment camps were also (technically speaking according the legal dictionary definition) "concentration camps"... but nobody tries to compare them to Nazi Concentration Camps.

Look, I understand everyone's fear and anger. But being angry about something doesn't mean that people can label things what they actually aren't. If someone believes that we're at risk of having gas chambers, cremation ovens, mass executions, mass graves and trenches filled with layers of bodies being bulldozed in an covered with more bodies... well they can talk about those fears all they want. But it's simply not accurate to compare it to a Nazi Concentration Camp or to use the word Auschwitz. It's simply not true.

[Girard442]

63. So, when many people confined in Alligator Alcatraz die after a hurricane...

...they will somehow be less tragically dead than the inmates of Auschwitz?

[Oopsie Daisy]

70. Any loss of life is tragic, if such a thing happens. But you're conflating two completely different things.

If you want to split hairs and parse words to discuss whether someone will be "less tragically dead" than any other cause of death... I fail to see the significance of such a distinction, especially with a hypothetical. But if you're willing to talk numbers, it's clear that the enormity of deaths at Auschwitz is far more tragic. Let's talk numbers. Based on historical research and estimates, approximately 1.1 million people were murdered at the Auschwitz concentration camp complex during World War II.

If there's a hurricane that results in the loss of life, yes, that will be tragic. But it will be no Auschwitz. There are no gas chambers, no cremation ovens, no executions, no mass graves, no bulldozers pushing layers of dead bodies into trenches. It's simply not the same.

Do you also refer to Covid as the Black Death or the Bubonic Plague? All of the Covid deaths were "tragic" and they were not any more or "less dead" than folks who died from the Plague... but that's where the similarities end. We don't call Covid "the Plague" for a reason.

Sorry, enough of the word games and hypotheticals. I'm done with you too. I have a family reunion cookout to prepare for tomorrow.

[Ms. Toad]

78. You are aware that Auschwitz was primarily a concentration camp, and a labor camp, right?

And that not all concentration camps had killing chambers, right? (Auschwitz did not, at its inception have a dedicated killing chamber. It had a small improvised gas chamber. It later added a small dedicated killing chamber was built later)

Auschwitz I was primarily a concentration camp (concentrating large numbers of people in a small area) and a labor camp (providing slave labor), which had a small killing chamber (for small, targeted populations). Auschwitz II (Auschwitz-Birkenau) was primarily a killing camp. Auschwitz III (Monowitz) was almost exclusively a concentration and labor camp.

As for comparing the Japanese internment camps to the concentration camps - I have always seen them as arising from the same underlying evil: hatred and fear of those who are different, and have compared those camps to Nazi Germany from the time I learned about both of them in around 6th grade - from my parents because it wasn't taught in our schools. My mother had a Japanese friend (preteen) who was disappeared into the US concentration camps .

They are levels of evil different in implementation, but the evil is of the same source - and if unchecked (as the current evil seems to be) are stages toward a government akin to Nazi Germany.

It is not about a battle for who has suffered the greatest harm. It is about recognizing evil so that we can more effectively address its root causes and stop it. Part of recognizing current evil is comparing it to past evils so we learn from history.

[Oopsie Daisy]

79. This is not the holocaust nor is the the beginning of the holocaust.

These comparisons to Auschwitz and the holocaust are absurd and offensive. There are many ways to point out that the Trump administration and their policies are evil without making ridiculous and false analogies. Part of "recognizing current evil" is by using effective and TRUTHFUL communication that doesn't fall into the trap of easily disproved hyperbole and ridiculous exaggerations.

>> And that not all concentration camps had killing chambers, right?
I never said otherwise, did I? The efforts to lecture me, or try to "correct me" or refute things I have never said shows that these arguments are coming from a place of weakness. Easier, I suppose, to knock down the things I didn't say than the things that I did say.

The "concencentration camp" and "holocaust" language and comparisons are clearly intended to make a direct comparison to the millions and millions murdered by the Nazis. But this comparison is not accurate. It's not correct. It's demonstrably false.

>> You are aware that Auschwitz was primarily a concentration camp, and a labor camp, right?
And you are aware that it was a multi-location complex with various purposes... all collectively referred to as "Auschwitz." We all know what everyone is talking about when that name is uttered. The name evokes the horrors of the killing chambers and the mass graves... exactly as those making the (false) comparisons want to do.

And then there are others who defend these ridiculous comparisons by pointing out that Auschwitz was more "nuanced" in its approach and what the Nazis actually did there. --- I'm sure that the 1.1 million souls who were murdered there will appreciate the hair-splitting distinction being made between the various functions at the multiple camps in the overall complex. Their souls will rest easier knowing that they were murdered at an an industrial human disposal factory that also included a "labor camp". --- This is so disrespectful to their memories and their experience and the ACTUAL horrors that they lived (and died) through... all to make a political point, that's not even accurate? Why?

Ms. Toad, although in the past you and I have had some decent conversations, that's clearly not the case this time. I can't continue with you any longer. What a disappointment this conversation has been. We have truly reached an impasse. Good bye.

[Ms. Toad]

81. If we ignore the similarities to the past, we are doomed to repeat it.

The "concentration camp" and "holocaust" language and comparisons are clearly intended to make a direct comparison to the millions and millions murdered by the Nazis. But this comparison is not accurate. It's not correct. It's demonstrably false.

Although this thread is my first comment on the matter, the comparison I am making is not to the millions murdered - it is to the actions of the murderers. (I can't speak for the intent of others in comparing Trump to Hitler.) Our current leaders are calling on the same sentiments in their followers that Hitler called on - race purity/superiority of white cis-males. They are increasingly using tactics that Hitler used: Purging long time leaders and replacing them with incompetent loyalists; speaking of immigrants and trans people as non-human; passing laws which criminalize/strip citizenship from those they consider undesirables; rounding up dumping (or threatening to dump) those who are different in concentration camps - either in the United States or by deportation to concentration camps in other countries like El Salvador and South Sudan.

My comments about Auschwitz, specifically, were a response to your insistence that concentration camps aren't concentration camps unless they include death chambers, crematories, and mass graves. I recently watched a documentary which included the information that Auschwitz (Auschwitz I, not the Auschwitz complex which later developed) was not primarily a death camp. That was new to me, since the name Auschwitz immediately brings to mind the millions who died in Auschwitz-Birkenau (Auschwitz II). In response to your post about the inherent nature of concentration camps and my recollection from the documentary, I went to fact-check my memory. The information I included in my post was from https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/auschwitz. It wasn't an attempt to minimize the horror which Jews experienced at the hands of Hitler. It was a reminder that, even if it was his ultimate plan from the beginning, Hitler didn't start with mass murder.

Concentration camps - even when not designed primarily to kill - were an early tool used by Hitler. And they are now a tool being used by Trump. If we insist that Trump's use of concentration camps (both in other countries and those being built in Florida) - currently for the purpose concentrating "undesirables" is nothing like what Hitler was doing, we risk being in denial. That denial is part of what allowed Hitler's mass murder to proceed unchecked.

I hope we won't go farther down that path, but insisting that Trump (and even more, the people responsible for feeding the worst of his impulses) is nothing like Hitler supports the lie that it can never happen here. It can, and if we don't wake up and stop it, it will.

[Oopsie Daisy]

82. TLDR

I made my point. It's ridiculous to go around in circles with you.

[Ms. Toad]

83. Kinda like the US response to Hitler, before he murdered millions. Not my problem. Don't bother me about it.

An ocean away from Hitler and free from the real threat of a German invasion, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt waffled on condemning the pogroms. During a November 11 press conference, he was asked if he had anything to say about the violence. “No, I think not,” he answered. “You had better handle that through the State Department.”

It took four days—and mounting criticism—for the president to act. On November 15, he announced that he had withdrawn the United States’ ambassador to Germany. “I myself could scarcely believe that such things could occur in a twentieth-century civilization,” he said. But the president indicated that there were no plans to support Jews who wanted to leave Germany, or to directly condemn Hitler for the pogroms.

FDR’s response to Kristallnacht was an omen of things to come. Though it may have seemed like a wake-up call to the world, Kristallnacht ended up rousing a public sentiment that quickly faded. Ultimately, writes historian Rafael Medoff, “the words of condemnation were not always accompanied by calls for action."

https://www.history.com/articles/kristallnacht-response-in-united-states-fdr

If we don't recognize the patterns of history, we are doomed to repeat it.

[Bluestocking]

80. Thank you. My thoughts exactly

I just don’t have the skill to put into words like you have.

[TnDem]

93. Sorry, but you know just enough to be dangerous

The German "concentration camps" started in Germany in the 30's...Places like Buchenwald, Dachau, etc...People died there, but they weren't set up for systematic killing.

The extermination camps were a whole other matter... Most of them were in Poland and were started as concentration camps in the late 30's 1940/41...These were where the MASSIVE deaths occurred...Auschwitz/Birkenau, Treblinka, Bergen-Belsen, Majdanek, Sobibor and the like.

Concurrently to this was the Einsatzgruppen, which most people on this board don't even know what it is without Googling, and yet they killed up to 1 million plus in Poland ahead of the Wehrmacht.

[lonely bird]

21. Just a question...

When did those things show up?

[atreides1]

31. OKay

Did you know that Auschwitz was built in three stages?

It consisted of Auschwitz I, the main camp (Stammlager) in Oświęcim; Auschwitz II-Birkenau, a concentration and extermination camp with gas chambers, Auschwitz III-Monowitz, a labour camp for the chemical conglomerate IG Farben, and dozens of subcamps. The camps became a major site of the Nazis' Final Solution to the Jewish question.

After Germany initiated World War II by invading Poland in September 1939, the Schutzstaffel (SS) converted Auschwitz I, an army barracks, into a prisoner-of-war camp. The initial transport of political detainees to Auschwitz consisted almost solely of Poles (for whom the camp was initially established). For the first two years, the majority of inmates were Polish. In May 1940, German criminals brought to the camp as functionaries established the camp's reputation for sadism. Prisoners were beaten, tortured, and executed for the most trivial of reasons. The first gassings—of Soviet and Polish prisoners—took place in block 11 of Auschwitz I around August 1941.

It took two years before the first gassings took place!

But who really needs crematoria when you can feed the corpses to the wildlife, and the fact that we're in hurricane season shows there really isn't any need for gas chambers, right now!

[TBF]

38. Cheaper to feed people to alligators than build ovens -

but you know that. Keep playing your little game ...

[enid602]

55. ICE spending

But just in case, ICE’s budget will increase from $3B to $48.5B this year under the proposed spending bill.

[Pacifist Patriot]

45. Am I understanding you correctly, and you will not accept that we're on this path until we've reached the finish line?

I'm gobsmacked. This is how Germany got there in the first place. People like you without the ability to forecast consequences. Wow!

[Oopsie Daisy]

49. Well, be gobsmacked then. People can call them "concentration camps" all they want to but that doesn't make it true.

It's bad, yes. I never argued differently, but it's NOT a concentration camp, it's not Auschwitz. To be clear, I understand the desire to emphasize the seriousness of the situation, I worry that such comparisons can be perceived as diminishing the experiences of those who suffered and died in actual concentration camps.

As I've said in other posts, the use of this type of hyperbolic language (that can be easily disproved) can undermine the credibility of our concerns and make it more challenging to have a productive discussion about the issues at hand. I'm also concerned that if we establish a pattern of exaggeration, it may become harder to be taken seriously in the future.

I believe we can effectively advocate for humane treatment and address the concerns without resorting to comparisons that may be perceived as exaggerated or insensitive. By using precise language and focusing on the specific issues, we can have a more nuanced and effective discussion.

All I'm trying to say is that y'all can call it what you want, but that doesn't make it true. I understand it's upsetting and that you're trying to "make a point" but that still doesn't make it true.

[Pacifist Patriot]

65. Okay, let me be perfectly clear. This is not hyperbole. It's a fucking death camp.

[Oopsie Daisy]

66. Oh, it's not a matter of my misunderstanding you. You've been perfectly clear, all right.

I'm just telling you that it's perfectly wrong. --- But it seems that we've reached an impasse, haven't we?

Nothing further to be gained in this exchange, so I'm done with you. Good bye.

[niyad]

74. An expert on concentration camps disagrees with you. Andrea Pitzer,

author of "One Long Night: A Global History of Concentration Camps", calls that horror show in Florida a CONCENTRATION CAMP. Perhaps you might consider reading her work.

[Oopsie Daisy]

75. As it's being used here, the words "concentration camp" are meant to be a direct comparison to *

* Nazi concentration camps like Auschwitz. The great care being spent on splitting hairs and finding alternative meanings and uses throughout history reveal the weakness of the rebuttals being made. The fact remains that the Auschwitz comparisons are absurd. There are no cremation ovens, there are no gas chambers, there are trenches being filled with layers of corpses bulldozed in, there are no gallows and no execution walls. Split hairs and parse words all you want, but it will not change the facts.

[niyad]

76. Just stop already. Your posted insistence on this horror being anything

other than it is has gone past tedious to embarrassing.

[Oopsie Daisy]

77. I've done no such thing. I've repeatedly acknowledged that it's a horrible situation. But *

* it's not Auschwitz. It's as simple as that. The insistence that it's just like Auschwitz is what's truly embarrassing. It's disrespectful to the 1.1 million people were murdered at Auschwitz. "Just stop already"... indeed.

[W_HAMILTON]

84. When that happens, it will be far too late. Stop ignoring the warning signs that are everywhere.

[uponit7771]

41. Technically? Yes

[B.See]

4. Those calling this the beginning

have no idea what's already hit them, I think.

[TBF]

39. Agree -

the FOFA is going to be strong when they are called to pick up their parents at the nursing homes that are closing.

[tblue37]

5. This is true!

[BurnDoubt]

6. THIS IS WRONG!!!!!

In case you don't know RIGHT from WRONG.
Or IGNORANT from STUPID.

[niyad]

11. MEANING???

[BurnDoubt]

16. Sorry--- Not a dispute. Entire Administration policies ARE WRONG!!!!!

Every bit of it is DIAMETRICALLY opposed to everything I believe in America.

[niyad]

17. Thank you for clarifying.

[uponit7771]

43. We're proper cooked either way, right now we're arguing Nazi or Nazi light with one too many DUrs

Last edited Thu Jul 3, 2025, 04:16 PM - Edit history (1)

[Cha]

7. So Horrifically True.

And when and Where will it All End?

[SharonAnn]

8. I have read "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" four times, once about every 12-15 years.

I’m starting to read it again. The first time I read it I began to understand how it started. Subsequent readings informed me more about the steps on the way and I began to recognize some of them here, in our country.

Itis frightening howfar along the path we are.

[Permanut]

9. Monumental historic account..

Haven't read it for 40 years; time to get it out again.

[JCMach1]

12. Albert Spear's Inside the Third Reich is also good

For understanding how people get pulled in to doing both the banal and the horrific.


The thing that gets me is Trump has no likable traits at all. He's a toxic human being excluding the political stuff. I dont get that part at all.

[Karasu]

13. He's also fucking stupid. Which is unfortunately a plus here, and only here. This country glorifies and celebrates

stupidity in a way that you simply don't see to the same degree anywhere else.

[wolfie001]

14. Don't leave out the 6 christo-fascist pigs on the SC and some of their spouses who are equally piggy

And this porcine hag too. Just for laughs

[Javaman]

20. He just said that natural born citizens are next

It’ll be political prisoners, LGBTQIA2S+, artists of any medium, anyone who spoke ill of him or didn’t vote for him. Or someone they just don’t like just because

[Torchlight]

27. The water's getting hot and the frog ain't going anywhere.

We're taking too many steps down a dark pathway, while far too many people walk backwards telling us they can see everything in front of them so clearly.

[kkmarie]

33. Was Jan6

Wondering was Jan6 Krasnov's "beer hall putsch" ? The beginning of the end for our country.
https://www.history.com/articles/hitler-failed-beer-hall-putsch

[uponit7771]

44. Yes, Hitler served more time than Trump and didn't have 1 billionaire bankrolling 33% of his campaign.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

40. I am scared

trump and DeathSantis have built a true concentration camp and trump is "joking" about feeding detainees to alligators. This new concentration camp scares me. There are several good comparisons of the Auschwitz camp and living facilities compared to this facility

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

I am former member of the board of my 2400 family temple and have got to listen a good number of holocaust survivors over the years. trump/DeathSantis' new facility is a concentration camp where it is likely that normal law abiding detainees may end up (over 60% of the ICE detainees have no criminal record).
This facility is not Auschwitz but could be just the beginning

[Fl_life]

46. Temporary...

That's what it keeps being touted as.. but what does this really mean? What are the possible outcomes that make it short term considering all cases are not the same?

[C_U_L8R]

52. When do we get to the part

where the Generals try to blow him up?
How many of them have even imagined that very notion?

[Bluetus]

64. Absolutely. Most elected Dems are still at the " Gee, I don't like where this might end up" phase

We have already lost the whole damned democracy. Every institution has failed. Yet every day I hear a tape loop of Jamie Raskin saying some cheery thing like "If we just follow the Constitution, we'll be just fine". WTF? What world are these people paying attention to?

[Pacifist Patriot]

71. The scariest part to me...

Is we have someone in this very thread with their head in the sand. So frustrating I had to put the person on full ignore, and I hardly ever do that.

I grew up in Germany. I was there closer to the end of WWII than we are to 09/11 now. I remember our landlord talking to my parents about it. I remember a friend of my mom's talking about it. Societal shame was detectable to a child.

Anyone who doesn't recognize this path we're on either has never cracked a history book or is choosing not to see.

[Bluetus]

72. Probably a good time to remind ourselves of Pastor Martin Niemller

I really don't feel like going to a fireworks show today.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

[Pacifist Patriot]

73. Yes to both sentiments.

I'm not in a celebratory mood.

[W_HAMILTON]

85. Spend more time going after the MAGA Republicans responsible for this and less time attacking Democrats...

...that are well aware of the threats we are facing:

Trump’s tactics of disappearing people in America should terrify everyone who still cherishes democracy and freedom. We reject this growing authoritarian assault.

— Rep. Jamie Raskin (@raskin.house.gov) 2025-06-30T20:33:30.744Z

[Bluetus]

87. We cannot change the Republicans. We much overpower them.

And that is hard to do when the elected Dems have nothing but lukewarm "Oh pshaw, something seems a little wrong here."

[W_HAMILTON]

88. Stop blaming Democrats for the failures of the voters.

I believe every single elected Democrat voted against this terrible MAGA bill -- and it still passed because we didn't have enough Democratic votes to "overpower" Republican votes.

I think anyone that has read this forum recently knows just about every-damn-person has a different thought on what our messaging should be, how we should get it across, what we should be focusing on, etc.

Fact of the matter is, you don't need to agree with someone 100% of the time to still support them because the vast, vast, vast, vast, VAST majority of them are still voting JUST LIKE YOU WOULD when it comes to these bills that actually matter.

Stop with this damn Goldilocks approach to our Democrats already.

[Bluetus]

89. Excuse me, I am 70 and there hasn't been a single election when I had any input

to the selection of our Presidential candidate. And I have supported every one of them,, So don't try to blame a whole series of milquetoast candidates and campaigns on me.

Yes, it is hard to see how Republicans can vote for a person like Trump, but we made it easy by presenting candidates who were advised to never say anything controversial and just count on the Daley ground game to win the election.

That is how we got to this point -- elected Democrats who were cocksure that all the institutions would hold.

I've had it with all the people here telling me "Shut up, Mueller's got this" or "Shut up, Smith's got this" or "Shut up, Biden's got this" or "Shut up - Harris has this". None of them ever had this. They didn't have a clue what they were up against.

The only Democrat I see taking any effective action is Bernie, and he's not even a Democrat. When a Democrat like AOC stands up, the Dem establishment kicks her down to a position where she has the smallest possible voice. When a person like Hogg stands up, the party establishment boots him out in favor of people whose only contribution to the party is getting drunk every 4 years wearing stupid hats at a meaningless, anachronistic convention.

So I am sorry, I do not accept the blame for how we got here, and I really have no interest in hearing any more of the tepid, careful, ambiguous statements from politicians who never did anything to try to PREVENT our slide to this point.

You say that everybody here has a different idea about messaging. Maybe that is true. But who is the Party leader? And what is the Party plan? I can't support somebody who has no plan. I realize most of the above is a rant that you probably didn't need to hear, so feel free to ignore all of that. But if somebody would like to answer those last two questions, I would be in their debt. (Who is the leader and what is their plan?)

[Bluetus]

90. BTW, here is an example of a leader and a plan

Yes Democrats are running away from him at the same time the people are giving him major support


https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:vmtlo3wakyqwfa4orh2exe2k/post/3ltcwohiims2n?ref_src=embed&ref_url=https%253A%252F%252Fdemocraticunderground.com%252F100220464333

[W_HAMILTON]

95. Effective action, my ass.

I remember them telling us about how all those rallies in blue dots in red states was really having an effect on Republicans in Congress. -- "we have Republicans on their back foot," i believe they wrongly claimed. Those rallies didn't do a goddamn thing to stop passage of this terrible bill, but you know what would have? Not shitting on Democrats and instead getting more of them elected so that the bill would have never been brought up to begin with.

And if you haven't had any input in the selection of OUR presidential candidate, pray tell why that is? Closed primary and you choose not to be a member of the party who you think you should be able to dictate who their nominee is?

[Bluetus]

96. 2 points

Last edited Mon Jul 7, 2025, 12:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Rallies are effective. The problem is the people who are so wedded to losing that they attack the few who do get out there. Why do you do that?

Candidate selection. The POTUS candidate has always been decided long before I get a chance to vote. Do you really not understand how primaries work?

[W_HAMILTON]

97. Two points right back:

(1) Rallies are not effective, at least not for Democrats. Biden had relatively few rallies -- and the ones he did were sparsely attended -- and yet he trounced everyone in the primary and then went on to win the general. Kamala had much bigger rallies than Trump, and in the end, it didn't end up signifying anything. And all those hyped-up rallies by Sanders and AOC, they ended up amounting to absolutely nothing in terms of stopping this bill. Elected Republicans did not care, they did not feel pressure, and they passed the bill as expected. I hope those rallies at least resulted in them registering more Democrats, but given how Sanders (in particular) constantly disparages our party as a whole......

(2) If that's the case, do YOU not understand how primaries work? If the candidate has already been decided by the time you vote, that means they have already secured a majority of votes, thus of course they will win. States have been jockeying around primary dates for a while now, so if you feel that you and your state are being left out because they schedule the primaries there too late in the process, take it up with those in your state that are responsible for setting those dates.

[Bluetus]

98. You are making my point

"Sanders and AOC, they ended up amounting to absolutely nothing in terms of stopping this bill"

Those rallies were not targeting the bill. In fact, the bill did not even exist when Sanders and AOC were on the road. The rallies got a lot of media coverage -- much more than we normally get . If a few prominent Dems would have joined that effort, there is a good chance we could have peeled off enough at-risk GOP votes to make a difference. But instead, your solution is to do nothing?

The rallies put a lot of heat on Musk and Doge, and I believe they were a significant factor in creating the friction between Musk and Trump.

And regarding primaries, you are demonstrating that you don't understand this process. I live in a state that is always late enough in the cycle that the decision is locked up for practical purposes before I ever have an opportunity to vote. We have probably had fewer that 10 appearances by eventual winning Dem candidate anywhere in my state within 45 days of the primary in my lifetime.

[uponit7771]

86. THIS !!! 1 too many are thinking political power IMHO vs we're going where we can't get out even with elections

[William769]

69. K&R!