It's too late': David Suzuki says the fight against climate change is lost.

[bronxiteforever]

David Suzuki, noted environmentalist and longtime host of ‘The Nature of Things’ on CBC. At 89-years-old, Suzuki remains a fierce advocate for global climate action, but he spoke about recently coming to the conclusion that humanity has lost the fight against climate change,

“Now, it is too late.
I’ve never said this before to the media, but it’s too late. I say that because I go by science and Johan Rockström, the Swedish scientist who heads the Potsdam Institute, has defined nine planetary boundaries. These are constraints on how we live. As long as humans, like any other animal, live within those nine constraints, we can do it forever, and that includes the amount of carbon in the atmosphere, the pH of the oceans, the amount of available fresh water, the nitrogen cycle, etc.

There are nine planetary boundaries and we’ve only dealt with one of them — the ozone layer — and we think we’ve saved ourselves from that threat. But we passed the seventh boundary this year, and we’re in the extreme danger zone. Rockström says we have five years to get out of the danger zone.
If we pass one boundary, we should be shitting our pants. We’ve passed seven!

For me, what we’ve got to do now is hunker down. The units of survival are going to be local communities, so I’m urging local communities to get together…Governments will not be able to respond on the scale or speed that is needed for these emergencies…Find out who on your block can’t walk because you’re going to have to deal with that. Who has wheelchairs? Who has fire extinguishers? Where is the available water? Do you have batteries or generators? Start assessing the roots of escape. You’re going to have to inventory your community, and that’s really what we have to start doing now.

More here
https://www.ipolitics.ca/2025/07/02/its-too-late-david-suzuki-says-the-fight-against-climate-change-is-lost/
In light of our failure to control climate change, impacts such as the loss of FEMA, and the clear direction the planet is going and the response of Texas to the flooding, this interview published on July 2nd gives us a way to survive. President Biden was right for calling climate change an existential threat. It is here now and we have to think about survival.

[AllaN01Bear]

1. hem

agree.

[Autumn]

2. We didn't lose the fight. The politicians threw the fight, they were well paid too.

I agree, it's over.

[Brenda]

6. Agree with all you said.

Don't know why it has taken so many folks like David so long to admit the truth before us.

Yes, it is too late to stop this runaway train. Only mitigation efforts like home buyouts, government assisted relocations, etc. were the smart things to do and were happening under Biden admin. Now those things are thrown in the trash along with meteorologists, colleges, the EPA and everything else that helps human beings.

These fuckers must be Aliens from Hell.

[llmart]

26. I agree with you but...

I have followed David Suzuki for decades - ever since the first Earth Day and he has been ringing the alarm about climate change his entire life. If he makes a statement about where we are and what needs to be done, I listen. Unfortunately, we live in a self-centered, myopic, egotistical and short-sighted country. Our society doesn't deal in long range on anything. I am despondent but I still believe that the younger generations need to step up to the plate. Don't spend your energy on blaming boomers and for godsake, get the hell off your duffs and vote! and not for anyone with GOP after their names. It's your futures not mine that are going to be affected the most, if you're still here.

[haele]

58. Younger generations have been stepping up since the 1980's.

Last edited Sun Jul 6, 2025, 03:27 PM - Edit history (1)

And then they get into the workplace and become cynical to fit n, and eventually become selfish nihlist.
On edit, realistically, we've known about this. But like with hippies, not every stereotype is as lockstep as it seems.
Human beings, while they recognize that cooperative activity fixes issues and improves survival, are easily manipulated into selfishness.
Eventually, the younger generations will have to do the right thing, or die.

[Brenda]

62. I don't think that's true for most of them.

"...become cynical to fit in" - well everyone does that to one extent or another in order to keep their job. But about the "eventually become selfish nihilist" part -

Most young people, say younger than 40, see zero future for themselves. They know full well the government is not going to be there. First time in US history college graduates cannot find jobs. Vast majority don't want to have children. Most of them are well aware how far gone the climate situation is and all they see is baby steps to address this by governments and panels.

So perhaps it's not that they are selfish, but realists.

[llmart]

71. I don't think most of them are well aware of how far the climate has gone south.

The last ten years of my career I worked in post-secondary education. I always had students that worked for me if they were on work study or internships. I got to know each and every one of them and some that didn't work directly with me also. I clearly remember the ones who were absolutely passionate about the environment. I clearly remember them because there were so few of them. One of the guys who was an avid environmentalist was a self-proclaimed Republican. We had some conversations about how he could support a party that does so little to address climate change. This was before the GOP had gone completely over to the dark side. He said that was where people like him were needed the most. OK, good answer. One of the girls who worked for me did not have a driver's license and had no desire to have a car because of the environmental impact. But the majority of them didn't give much thought to their own personal actions with regard to the environment. At the law school at the beginning of each new class, the Dean would have an assembly of all the new students and ask them to state why they were going into law and what type of law they wanted to pursue. I don't remember any one of them saying environmental law though one girl said animal rights law which I guess was close. A lot of them said to make a lot of money. Yeah, it was very discouraging.

Materialism was one of the traits that was evident among a lot of them. I'd look at them and see the cars they drove, the clothes they wore, the amount of money they spent just on coffee drinks and going out to eat. I was in my 60's and was fairly comfortable financially and I still would never have spent that kind of money and neither would my three coworkers that were about my age. We used to have many conversations about it.

[Brenda]

75. While I truly appreciate your perspective

and frankly am in awe at any kind of educator because I couldn't do that...

You are talking about a very small segment of young people. College students (and college students in your particular school). And for years now the vast majority of them are rich, entitled young adults. I live in a University town. Very few of them work. They live in resort style condos and drive expensive cars paid by their wealthy families.

Of course there are the young people, especially young men who find the whole WWF Chump thing appealing and buy into that. Many are not very bright, on drugs, or just mean assholes.

But there are a lot more young, non-college educated people out there who are AWARE of the climate disaster and that fuels the polls showing they don't want to have kids and they don't even bother saving money because they know disaster is coming to us all.

[llmart]

81. You are incorrect about college students being mostly from upper middle class families.

If the ones you are talking about don't want children and don't want to save money, what exactly are they doing to alleviate some of the issues? Are they just throwing in the towel and saying, "I don't care because we won't be here"? I'll take the Greta Thunbergs over them every day. She's a hero to me.

[Brenda]

85. NYT article says otherwise.

Granted I found this quote on reddit but it links to a NYT article with lots of charts.

Shockingly, elitism and privilege isn't just at Ivy League, elite or private colleges. Even at "average" state schools, the students there are disproportionately upper middle class.

At Indiana University, 42% of the students are from families that are in the top 20% of household income. Even lesser known state schools are disproportionately "rich." At Ball State, 38% of the students are from the top 20%. You would think public state universities would have more economic diversity since they're supposed to serve the public. But their student bodies are still disproportionately from upper middle class families.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/

I am a big supporter of Greta. She not only started a movement as a child but has expanded her resistance to include feeding the people in Gaza who are being methodically starved and bombed into non-existence.

[OldBaldy1701E]

98. "First time in US history college graduates cannot find jobs."

Eh, that started in the middle nineties. When corporations started their campaigns to steer people Into the degrees that you are taking about today.

They did not want people studying the arts and antiquities. They wanted factory workers.

[Martin68]

83. The 80s? The hippies were devoted to a return to the land and a sustainable form of life. But their numbers were too few

and they were unwilling to work with a system to bring about systemic change. Neither has any generation since. I grew up during the 60s and have always worked in educational fields to persuade people to change their lifestyles in ways there were more sustainable for the Earth. I always voted for environmentally conscious candidates. Earth Day started in 1970, so I can't understand why you date concern for the environment from the 80's.

[haele]

87. I grew up during the 60's also, and my dad was a teacher.

Most hippies we met (we lived in Berkeley until 1967, later Seattle), were more interested in participating in the counterculture than actually turning it into a lifestyle.
The Yuppies of the Reagan Era might have sustained the hippie idealism, if Carter hadn't been belittled by the Media and betrayed by the old moneyed interests who actually gave somewhat of a shit about the Constitution and what the US stood for, because he wasn't one of them...

If Carter's last name had been Roosevelt or Rockefeller and a regular at DC, Chicago, or New York Society parties, he might have had a chance, and we might well be on a different, sustainable environmental path similar to the Nordic Countries by now.

[SharonAnn]

45. I believed this when GWB was installed along with Cheney. "Drill baby, drill" was their mantra.

Anything to do with conservation or dealing with the expected effects of climate change was "off the table".

And things are worse now, so is climate change.

[surfered]

3. I agree. We're toast. Republicans killed the planet

[dalton99a]

8. +1. We definitely lost 4 years because of Trump, and 4 more

[SharonAnn]

46. We lost 8 years because of GWB, 8 years obama had to deal with the financial collapse, 4 years of Trump, a GOP congress

[Kaleva]

67. China sealed the deal when its economy exploded

[gerryatwork]

88. Yup

The damage isn’t all from America

[Kaleva]

93. Agree

[ms liberty]

49. Not the planet - it will eventually recover. Republicans have killed human civilization.

[Aristus]

65. Human civilization.

I was never truly convinced that it existed, anyway.

[defacto7]

92. We will be a short lived species,

and not a comparatively successful one at that. We just did the most damage.

[misanthrope]

101. We're an extinction species

We're the asteroid.

[RT_Fanatic]

91. Just yesterday I watched a couple of videos featuring George Carlin.

This was one of the points he made, that Planet Earth will eventually dispose of the vermin that is the human race and recover from the devastation it caused. Another species will perhaps have its chance to become the dominant one, and maybe its stewardship of the planet will turn out better. Much like George did, I’m rooting for the asteroid like the one that caused the mass extinction of the dinosaurs. The human race deserves and will one day receive its similar fate.

[Lovie777]

4. Nope.....

[LymphocyteLover]

56. Nope, to what exactly? That it's lost?

[cadoman]

86. not sure, but the "bright side" is Krasnov is killing so many people that we may naturally course correct

He killed hundreds of millions with his COVID "policies" and scams, who's to say the fuck won't kill billions during his second term of fascism?

[newdeal2]

5. Sounds like a dystopian movie

I don't exactly see how local communities will be able to manage the changes any better. If things get to that level, the whole supply chain and economy is wiped out.

[Kaleva]

39. It'll be isolated communities struggling to survive

[Susan Calvin]

41. I'm afraid so.

I didn't make it to 73 just to live in an Octavia Butler book.

[Prairie_Seagull]

125. You may want to watch "2073" on max.

Beware though it is a lot in a couple of hours.

[DFW]

7. The one insurmountable for me is the dwindling amount of fresh water

It is the one thing without which surface life cannot continue.

Saudi Arabia is a world leader in desalinization plants. Israel, as well. Any arid country with a coastline that is NOT going full speed ahead with desalinization projects will find it wished it had, if that hasn't already occurred.

[surfered]

9. Our area is in a multi year drought. Reservoirs are down to 15% of capacity and were under severe water restrictions.

There are serious moves afoot for very expensive desalinization plants, but those are years away and the problem is on us now.

[DFW]

13. I know that the Clinton Global Initiative was seeking funding for desalinization plants almost 20 years ago.

He even mentioned it around 2006 or so. But of course, he and Al Gore were just tree huggers........

[OMGWTF]

43. And the first thing St. Ronnie Raygun did after he cheated to beat Carter, was remove the solar panels

from the White House. Rethuglicans hate America and Americans. They are Greedy Oily Perverted traitorous whores. All of 'em, Katie!

[hatrack]

102. Besides, which candidate would you rather have a beer with, amirite?

[DFW]

110. Yeah, we heard that a lot in 2000

It went right by me, though. I hate beer. I can’t stand the taste or smell of the stuff.

[in2herbs]

22. I understand this water will be used to power solar and AI for their country. What I don't understand is why

f45 wants to appease the oil industry and not the green industry. The oil industry is on the back side of history. Unless US is ready to invest in green energy the same as SA, SA will dominate countries who are still in the coal age.

[Jerry2144]

30. Oil industry currently has money to bribe him with

Green industry is growing but doesn’t have that amount of money to bribe. And the green side is more ethical and trying to help humanity. Bribery is not their main way to do business

[thought crime]

44. The Oil Industry is market driven

The huge external cost of fossil fuel use is Climate Change, but oil companies don't pay the climate costs. The oil industry mostly works within a market framework. Alternative energy often requires subsidies and looks less profitable and efficient, even though it is not incurring the huge cost of climate change that we all must pay for, sooner or later.

[markodochartaigh]

54. Our oiligarchs in the oil industry

have for many decades entrenched themselves in the political and religious spheres of power in the US and around the world. Here is a good resource particularly on the US and Latin America.


https://books.google.com/books/about/Thy_Will_Be_Done.html?id=t9U3DwAAQBAJ


Our oiligarchs exercise outsize power even for their billions.

https://books.google.com/books/about/Thy_Will_Be_Done.html?id=t9U3DwAAQBAJ

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/jul/11/tim-dunn-texas-oil-billionaire-trump

[hatrack]

106. It's two mutually reinforcing scams . . . . or a highly profitable suicide pact (YMMV)

The AI Tech Bros huff and puff about how their "vital industry" is "the future" and has to be given anything it wants or else we will "lose". That means energy. Since it's what they do, both fossil energy companies and electric utilities want to sell more of what they produce.

AI - also known as The Shiny Thing Industry - is a license for fossil energy companies and utilities to keep building NG power plants and pumping and fracking and piping gas and oil, along with bringing coal plants back into service.

This lets the Tech Bros point and say "See?!? Utility companies wouldn't be investing billions unless they knew that AI is The Future!!" And utility and fossil energy companies can say "See?!? We've got to power The Future!! We have to use more gas and coal!!"

[Tadpole Raisin]

29. I read something (in regards to microplastics) where someone commented

that microplastics would be this generations lead poisoning. It kind of threw me but given where they have been found along with all the other contaminants - red tide, forever chemicals - you have to wonder what we will be seeing for diseases (when they finally acknowledge it) in the near future.

When I was growing up the thought that pure healthy water would be an increasingly rare phenomenon was unheard of.

[thought crime]

34. Water may be a big driver of climate change migration.

[FakeNoose]

96. Pennsylvania and upstate New York have very good water in sustainable quantities

Unfortunately there isn't enough for everyone in the US, let alone the planet.

[gulliver]

10. Dems need to decenter the "2+2 equals whatever you want" voices

We need the thinkers back in the control room if any are willing to re-enter. We need to win back the hearts and minds of the vast majority of people of good will and common sense. Our credibility has been sorely damaged in recent years.

[indusurb]

11. Frankly it was lost decades ago

Set federal limits on carbon, or fuel efficiency, or whatever, next administration would overturn them. Start giving tax credits for energy alternatives in one state, nothing in the next. On and on, watered down compromises, watered down regulations, always 2 steps forward, one step back. Sometimes one-step forward, two steps back. The fossil fuel industry buying the state and national government, this was the inevitable result, and it was obvious forty five years ago. Reagan removed those solar panels from the WH as a rallying cry to not give a hoot and pollute.

Capitalist greed is going to kill us all.

[justsomeguy01]

23. sadly,

Our species is fatally flawed. Tribalism, fear, greed, hate, trauma, ignorance. We just don't have what it takes to evolve to be better than we are.

[Mtnmama]

57. Some do, dare I say many, but those who crave power,

Money and fame gain power and make it impossible for the wise and caring to control anything. Same with the nra and gun industry.

[calimary]

112. Welcome to DU, justsomeguy01!

Yeah, we're flawed. But that's why Mom's always loved us! Flaws and all!

When speaking for myself, I'd usually add "love me ANYWAY!"

[WarGamer]

97. the US isn't even close to the prime driver of CO2 increase...

no amount of solar panels, ev's or windmills in the US will have an impact.

At this point... it's irreversible.

[Skittles]

117. Reagan made greed and ignorance fashionable

he really changed America for the worse and she has never recovered

[dalton99a]

12. A must read.

[RandomNumbers]

14. Find your local Transition Town movement

Transition towns -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_town

I am a member of a local FB group and they are active. Personally I do what I can, which isn't enough ... but if enough people "do what they can" it would make a real difference.

[bronxiteforever]

15. Thank you RandomNumbers for posting this information!

[surfered]

16. Ironically, approximately 40% of water use in our area is related to the petrochemical industry

[JanMichael]

20. And 30% is livestock

Around 30% maybe more:

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2019WR026995

[Iamscrewed]

17. I've been saying it's too late for years

[Kaleva]

36. It would have taken a world wide effort....

and a level of cooperation never before achieved in human history.

[NH Ethylene]

113. I have too. For nearly 20 years.

A few feedback mechanisms have caused climate change due to CO2 concentrations to accelerate beyond earlier predictions.

It's been clear for a while that even our best efforts would fail to curtail it. I don't usually say it aloud though because ANY effort to reduce fossil fuel burning could buy us a little more time and should be encouraged.

[EarthFirst]

18. Imagining the climate migration to the Great Lakes region...

…and the international dispute among our neighbors to the north when massive fresh water resource from the Great Lakes becomes a battle of survival.

21% of the freshwater in the world and 84% of North American reserves divided by international border and treaties…

Sigh.

[flvegan]

19. Breeding and eating our way to extinction. n/t

[in2herbs]

21. The US is now being ruled by oldigarchs who want to take us back to "a better time." They have no idea what time

that is, these oldigarchs just believe that this right now is not "the right time." With them are the tech bros who also want to dictate our lives yet their own lives have never included shopping for groceries, transporting kids to school, pay for an education, etc. Now these guys are dictating that AI will be our future. However, AI takes an enormous amount of energy and water to operate -- things that our futures cannot hold because climate change affects our water supply and therefore our electrical supply. The very things they are denying.

[orangecrush]

24. It's too late for a lot of things.

I have to agree with the pessimism of George Carlin.

The human race had a chance, and we fucking blew it.

[H2O Man]

25. Recommended.

Before retiring, my brother would often have lunch with the earth science professors at a large university. They told him a decade ago that even if the damage to the environment fully stopped on a dime, there was going to be hell to pay.

[NewHendoLib]

27. Is anyone here surprised?

[bucolic_frolic]

28. Green consumption and recycling were corporate lies

Eat fish while there still are fish.

[Envirogal]

47. Unlimited consumption and disposal were the real culprits

[Kaleva]

31. I've been working on this for the past several years

From the article in the OP:

“For me, what we’ve got to do now is hunker down. The units of survival are going to be local communities.”

[Glaisne]

32. It has probably been too late

for at least two decades now. We are entering a new dark ages. The world’s scientists should get together to form hidden, self sustaining foundations that preserve human knowledge and history for a time when civilization can arise again.

[misanthrope]

33. 2020 taught us that much

If people couldn’t be counted on to perform, the relatively simple measures called for to combat COVID-19 and save others then they certainly weren’t going to perform the far more weighty measures needed to combat climate change.

[Martin Eden]

35. Al Gore was the most environmentally conscious Democratic nominee fpr president, ever.

The SCOTUS intervened in the 2000 election, handing the presidency to oil man GW Bush.

Trump has been even worse.

[RandomNumbers]

74. Wait, didn't I hear "not a dime's worth of difference" between Bush and Gore?

Brought to you by Mr. Ralph Nader and Michael Moore. (I believe the phrase was coined by the latter, in his support of the former)

[Martin Eden]

78. The difference was in the $trillions

Last edited Sun Jul 6, 2025, 05:37 PM - Edit history (1)

At least two catastrophes: climate and Middle East wars.

[RandomNumbers]

79. YES.

Every now and then M. Moore pipes up again about something and I'm just "sorry dude, lost me at not a dime's worth of difference".

[Justice matters.]

37. Another big reason the 'educated' WORLD hates the felon.

2025 was essential to be the START (or the acceleration from Biden's green policies) to LEAD the world in order to save human life from self-extermination.

Seeing the convicted idiot destroying all what was started and boosting mass-suicidal fossil fuel (oil and coal) consumption is the breaking point the hate of all he represents sneaks in permanently.

Really? USA, USA, USA? Nope.

No future for humanity.

46°C in Spain in June... a unprecedented mark since the first temperature take in History, and it's only going to get worse.

[twodogsbarking]

38. Somebody give me a cheesburger.

[Dock_Yard]

109. Great line, from the '68 song: "Living In The USA" by Steve Miller Band

"I see a yellow man, a brown man,
a white man, a red man.
We're lookin' for Uncle Sam,
To give you a helping hand."
But everybody's kickin' sand,
Even politiciANNs.
We're living in a plastic land,
Somebody give me a HAAAND."

Ohhhh, we're gonna make it, baby
Yeahh, we got to shake it baby,
Ohhhh, don't break it, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah..."

Just a wonderful, simple classic, full of youthful spirit, exhilaration, and optimism.

Followed only 2 years after by "Space Cowboy", an almost opposite lyrical viewpoint, accurately foreshadowing the negatives that the next 50 years would bring.

If you're under 40 and have never heard these 2 tunes, play them NOW!

[twodogsbarking]

120. The guitar. So many great songs beyond the ones that were "hits".

[Envirogal]

40. Mo' people, mo' problems.

I am glad that the “white night is coming around the corner” narrative are starting to end. It’s been too late for a long time. I work in an area of sustainability, but it’s been so freaking glaringly apparent and it’s been a great frustration because everybody is scared to make that announcement fearing that humanity will just veer towards faster destruction.

We can blame governments and they certainly could’ve been true leaders in this, but we have to blame ourselves as a species. 8 BILLION people all desiring more convenience and living longer than we are designed has given us a die with the most toys goal.

The greed, the excessive waste and pollution, the electing people we’d rather ‘have a beer with’ than someone who’s an educated visionary. Not seeing the reich wing assault back from the Lee Atwater days.

We had our chance with Al Gore. But we let them let Florida take it. We paid attention to amusing lies (he invented the internet) rather than his deserved alarm of what was happening to the planet. We tackled acid rain and the ozone and won, but for some reason the fossil fuel foes of global “warming” were able to thwart progress that would have hurt their business model. Money and greed won the battle but they have lost us the war.

We need to lower the birth rate quickly if there’s any chance of surviving the new normal. But you cannot have this kind of population explosion, even if the birth rates are low right now they need to be even lower. We need to get the population down by at least half. Very few want to listen to that unfortunately but not having kids is the most responsible thing you can do.

[Kaleva]

116. China's economic boom was the clincher

Greenhouse gas emissions from that nation skyrocketed in the past few decades .

[Callie1979]

121. The US birthrate IS low. What do you propose to do to the countries where its HIGH?

And when you start talking about HALVING the population as a policy, you're going to lose EVERY election its a part of.

[jimmy the one]

42. Known this for years; Americans disproportionately to blame

I have said for over 5 years that climate warming is irreversible; only that it would be maybe 50 years before people really started suffering, mainly in southern and currently temperate zones, and by then I will be dead, as will most of you reading this today.
.. Americans comprise about 5% of the worlds population yet consume about 25% of the worlds energy on a daily to yearly basis, squandering and wasting it on a daily to yearly basis. Preaching 'we have to act now to slow down energy use' is meaningless to the predominance of Americans who merely shrug their shoulders and turn up the heat high in winter and the thermostat down low in summer with no concern whatsoever except for their own personal comfort. And who can tell them what to do?
.. every week in summer where I live I see people sitting in cars with engines running with A/C running 45 minutes outside in hot sun reading a book waiting for the laundromat dryer to dry their clothes expending 100 times more energy use than if they had simply laid all their clothes out in the sun and dried them in an hour. But no, theirs is the American way - squander, waste, ignore consequences, and become righteously indignant if anyone dares to fault them for their wastefulness.
With trump and right wing cretins in control of the government for the next 4 years it will only get worse and then they will blame democrats for suppressing oil drilling which could have kept homes warmer and cooler by their twisted logic.
The downward spiral into the black hole of climate change is upon us and cannot be undone except by rapid development of controlled nuclear fusion and that will never be possible in time.

I am not an ego, jimmy the one is a British naval term, on board hms ships of size.

[Envirogal]

51. You had me until nuclear energy

Every point you made is completely on point but nuclear is a fallacy at scale universally around the world. I work in the waste industry and until the nuclear industry has never figured out how to deal with it and that is telling.

And it’s not just carbon emissions or even methane, which I also work in. It’s every toxicly made convenience we as a population of 8 billion use up. Just our automobile tires on the road is the largest source of micro pollution that enters waterways. Human needs and consumption are the true problem. Nuclear is not the answer but I fear there will be a rush to it.

[RandomNumbers]

77. The problem with nuclear as a panacea

Last edited Sun Jul 6, 2025, 04:18 PM - Edit history (1)

is that it implies we can solve the problem just by making enough energy from non-dirty sources.

To your point, the waste issue of nuclear itself has never been dealt with. Then there is all the other waste from living "business as usual", as if what we do just doesn't matter as long as the temperature doesn't rise too much.

One thing that bothers me in the climate change debate, is that temperature rise and weather effects are only one piece of the environmental damage that humans and our habits are inflicting on the planetary ecosystem. It seems humans can only be brought to care about an issue if it can be described as harming humans directly. (and at that we only get a too small percentage to care) Never mind that biodiversity loss is also potentially catastrophic for humans, if even harder to connect the dots - but it is definitely tragic for all the beauty and wonder that is being lost, whether it impacts humanity directly or not.

[jimmy the one]

129. Cheers, Envirogal

Thanks for your first eight words. Note that I clearly referred only to nuclear fusion, not fission.
I agree that nuclear fission waste is contributing to the problem, and increasingly so.
But nuclear fusion would contribute relatively not much to the problem, being a relatively clean source of energy which comes from, not the fission splitting of a uranium nucleus into neutrons into a chain reaction, but by the fusing together of hydrogen atoms resulting in relatively vast amounts of energy and helium atoms with far less radioactive decay with much shorter half lives than fission waste.
.. consider in a fusion power plant, one gallon of water would produce the energy equivalent of 300 gallons of gasoline, with little of the resulting carbon monoxide or dioxide exhaust which would ensue from burning the gasoline. Water! Abundant WATER! No need to drill!
I believe that nuclear fusion power plants aka controlled fusion*, would indeed curb global warming if it could be enabled large scale within a few decades, but of course this can not happen in time to offset, will not happen, maybe never happen. That is all I meant in my previous post.
.. if you speak of fission waste and energy expended from needing a fission bomb to 'ignite' a nuclear fusion reactor, that would need be factored into the equation, as well as creating deuterium and tritium.

* uncontrolled fusion is of course a hydrogen bomb. Controlled fusion is from a fusion power plant.
----------------------
Envirogal wrote: Human needs and consumption are the true problem.

Concur, more so with North Americans from the USA.

... I am not an ego, jimmy the one is a British naval term, a guy on hms ships of size.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

48. So, the plan is to put the foot on the gas?

MTG is trying to get a bill passed to make weather manipulation a felony. Should we tell her to tell that to Fossil Fuel Mass Murderers, Inc?

[Ol Janx Spirit]

50. Democracy and capitalism are human inventions intended to solve the very specific issues...

...of the ill effects of entrenched political power and the need for a system to unleash the benefits of human ingenuity.

Both have actually worked pretty well as intended for the most part. But the law of unintended consequences is as constant as gravity.

It turns out that democracy is good at solving problems with a fairly short-term horizon, but it struggles to deal with long-term issues because of the continually changing political landscape it encourages. It leaves us incredibly vulnerable to long-term problems like climate change, because the effects of a long-term problem must become a short-term problem before democracy can deal with it--and at that point it is too late.

And this might not be such a big issue if it weren't for the invention of capitalism. Prior to large-scale capitalism the world was held far more static from a production standpoint. In a barter system it made little sense to overproduce since the market for your goods was limited and you efforts were unlikely to gain you very much. Ingenuity was limited to those things that could help make your work easier or help you defend yourself from invaders or be a more successful one. Capitalism would expand the concept of credit into factories and automobiles and airplanes and spaceships and cell phones and the Internet and AI--converting the earth's resources into commodities to be purchased and into CO2.

The unintended consequences of democracy and capitalism are unfortunately currently out-of-control environmental destruction. At this point, something not manmade will likely need to intervene: volcanic eruptions, climate cycles we currently do not understand, aliens offering new technology....

[MichMan]

52. Voters aren't willing to make the sacrifices

People are told that they need to conserve and minimize their carbon footprints when they see celebrities, the rich, and politicians flying in private jets and living in huge mansions. Many of them the same ones saying climate change is an existential threat. Good for thee but not for me, I guess.

Politicians love cheap gas prices because voters do, but act shocked when people prefer buying a SUV to a Prius.

[LymphocyteLover]

59. They would if they realized the stakes. Too many just don't believe it thanks to GOP psychopaths

[Mosby]

53. Fareed Zakaria said this 20 years ago in Newsweek.

And said we need to prepare for the changes and stop believing that scientific magic is somehow going to save us.

The biggest issue is that the worst polluters (China, India, Russia, Indonesia, Malaysia) have no interest in changing their behavior, in fact they insist that they have to keep polluting in order to develop and grow their economies.

China won't even deal with the issue honestly, instead they play statistical games like "per-capita emissions", like somehow that makes a difference.

[LymphocyteLover]

55. it's not so black and white... we can and will do better in the fight against global warming

as long as we get fucking Republicans out of office

[Kaleva]

63. China produces as much greenhouse gases ....

as all the other industrialized nations combined and that includes the US. The US is in 2nd place but India is on track to take that spot in the near future.

[pansypoo53219]

60. duh. we lost 'normal' in the 80's. i noticed the change + data says the same.

pray for krakatoa II.

[et tu]

61. and activate your community

to escape to where?

[markodochartaigh]

64. More than a decade ago

I saw a presentation by Col. Larry Wilkerson, Colin Powell's chief of staff, in which he said that a NASA climatologist told him that under a worst case scenario (and the IPCC worst case scenarios have been routinely exceeded) by 2100 with current agricultural technology there would only be enough arable land on the planet for 400 million people. The whole talk is great but the relevant part starts at about 50 minutes here.

?feature=shared

[W_HAMILTON]

66. Honestly, with how quickly the issue completely dropped from certain voters' priorities...

...especially after the Biden administration passed the largest climate change bill in American history, the cynic in me just says it was all just another manufactured wedge issue to divide the left and allow more Republicans to win.

I remember when climate change was the single most important issue because it represented an existential crisis...

...but then Hillary used private emails and a few businesses paid her to give a speech...

...and then Israel ramped up the same sort of attacks it had been doing in Gaza for years and it suddenly becomes the most important issue to some (many of which probably didn't even know what Gaza was a few months' prior)...

I'm sorry, it all reeks of social media-engineered outrage, with a certain gullible segment of the left being led around by the nose to what wedge issue they should care the most about and blame Democrats for not caring enough/doing enough about it.

[Dave says]

68. I remember reading Gregory Bateson

Bateson’s Toward an Ecology of Mind (iirc). Back then, in 1976 (again iirc), he said he and other scientists believed we are a species on its way out. The reason was “cybernetics” - social, physical, environmental systems - would prevent us from evolving away from the harmful behaviors we inherit when born. Instead we poison our planet and wage war on each other.

To him and a group of other scientists we’d be gone in a few generations. He may have had the timing wrong, but otherwise, unfortunately, he likely was correct.

[Mysterian]

69. Thanks to human greed and stupidity

In the USA, that's called the republican party.

[NickB79]

70. I'm convinced this is why the US far right wants Canada

Whispering in Trump's ear to annex our northern neighbor because we're gonna need their cropland.

[WarGamer]

72. I've been saying it for years... it's time for mitigation.

The hockey stick is real.

Most won't admit it... but the breaking point was probably 50 years ago

[UTUSN]

73. K&R

[ImNotGod]

76. Texas found that out THE HARD WAY. nt

[Scrivener7]

80. Can we stop saying the falling birth rate is a problem now, please?

[Martin68]

82. Once it was clear that not a single country was willing to do what it takes, it was clear nothing was going to stop the

coming catastrophe. Trump's election announced the death knell to all nationwide attempts to decrease the release of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere. I doubt that individual states and organizations have the ability to stem the tide on their own. We had a good run. I am grateful I grew up during a time when there were still relatively unspoiled remnants of nature to enjoy. I won't live to see the worst of the coming change. Humans will adapt one way or another, but I doubt that civilization as we know it will survive the coming rise in sea level, the disruption of weather patterns that will lead to famine and drought, the disruption of vital ocean currents, and an increase in power and frequency of life -threatening storms. We may not go the way of the dinosaurs, but we will be facing a vert different world without the technology that we have come to depend on, and which is partly to blame for our predicament.

[Evolve Dammit]

84. I fear he is right. We collectively as a species "blew it." We were warned and now we will bear the consequences of

the willful ignorance. Sucks for those of us that have tried to do the right thing for the last 50 years. Participated in first "Earth Day" April 22, 1970. Spent my life doing environmental protection. Fuck you to climate change deniers.

[EllieBC]

89. Not listening to Mr. Hypocrite.

Suzuki has 5 kids. After spending years finger wagging at people having kids and he has 5?

He has MULTIPLE homes. Multiple. One is a $12m Point Grey property. He also owns multiple vehicles.

He travels regularly and by jet.

So I’m not going to live my life differently.

He’s part of the 1% and they’ll happily tell the rest of us how to live regardless of political affiliation.

[defacto7]

95. This could be devastating to his credibility

If you had links that prove your point. And even if you're correct most of us already know that what he's saying is true. Facts are facts no matter who says it.

[EllieBC]

100. It's been talked about for YEARS.

It’s not unknown how many kids he has and you can easily google his views on people having kids.

He’s also a fan of high density housing except clearly for him. Point Grey is a super wealthy neighbourhood here in Vancouver.

Facts are facts but don’t try to dictate the behaviour of others for years and years while you lead a better life. If he thinks everyone should not have kids and live in shoe boxes and walk everywhere then he should do that too.

[NickB79]

104. He's 89 years old

He would have had his 5 children 50+ years ago, long before we knew how bad it would become.

I can't attack him for that particular aspect of his life.

[EllieBC]

107. He's been preaching it for decades.

Along with high density housing. Except for himself. So he’s a hypocrite.

Oh and he has 10 grandchildren so I suppose his kids having kids was also ok with him. One of his cousin’s kids is Nick Suzuki who is the captain of the Montreal Canadiens. Ice hockey is usually not appreciated by environmentalists because of the amount of water and refrigerants used.

But this is Canada and our kids play hockey.

[hatrack]

124. So that makes him wrong about planetary boundaries and our species' overshoot?

Got it.

[ananda]

90. It was always too late, even before the election.

I just would have preferred Democrats to deal with
it, along with the aftermath.

[artemisia1]

94. No, because Rush Limbaugh told me Climate Change was a scam. (SARCASM)

[mjvpi]

99. The climate crisis is the result of under regulated capitalism.

Every time that we, FDR Democrats, are dismissed as Socialists, make sure that the blame for the climate crisis is laid on Captalism.

[valleyrogue]

108. It really started with the neolibs in the Reagan administration

and the "outsourcing" of jobs to cheap labor countries with few or no regulations. All about more profits for business and to hell with the consequences.

China, India, you name it, got those manufacturing jobs. This in a nutshell is why the planet is effed up. Uncle Miltie Friedman and his cadre of Chicago School crackpots are largely responsible.

[Clouds Passing]

127. Yup, the rich set the agenda for the rest of us. Less than 1% set the agenda for 8-9 billion people.

[Polybius]

103. I personally think 1950 was too late

Maybe even 1930.

[Doodley]

105. The only chance is for world leaders to urgently develop carbon extraction technology and massive afforestation

Even then, you actually have to re-freeze ice that is already melting. That would take the greatest brains, all nations working together, and trillions of dollars. I don't see the political will. Flooding, drought, mass crop failure, disease, famine, unprecedented storms, mass migration attempts, and wars are the invetable alternative.

[Barbegazi]

111. It's not too late

We can turn this around with nuclear + renewables + grid storage, 2028 will be the year.

[Kaleva]

115. It would take a level of cooperation never before achieved

With China producing about as much greenhouse gas as all the other industrialized nations combined , including the US, and with India on pace to take over 2nd place from the US, it would take a world wide effort.

The US could achieve net zero emissions and we’d still be facing catastrophy.

Some of the greenhouse gas can remain in the atmosphere for hundreds of years.

[Barbegazi]

133. I am more optimistic

Not arguing with you—it will be difficult. First step is to get to net zero. We will need even more energy to separate and sequester CO2 from the atmosphere. Will take trillions of dollars but will save hundreds of trillions in damages from climate change. This will take a worldwide effort and over a century to achieve.

[Kaleva]

134. +1

[Old Crank]

114. I read a few years ago that we have already baked in a 200 ft sea rise.

Based on carbon levels in the air.

No finite system can support infinite growth.

[Botany]

118. 100% correct

Salt water is moving north up the Mississippi and Delaware Rivers along with killing thousands of
acres of costal forests along the east coast as the ocean levels rise. The Bearing Sea is now too
warm for the King and Snow Crabs and the lobster populations in the N. Atlantic are crashing too.

And Trump is shutting down NOAA’s climate monitoring observatory on Mauna Lua.

[Javaman]

119. If Harris had been rightly elected

we would have had a margin of chance.

but since empty husk fixed it for the orange asshole, we're done.

[Kaleva]

123. How?

Not with China producing so much greenhouse gases.

[Javaman]

130. I said margin of a chance.

this ain't Vegas LOL

[Torchlight]

122. We'll maintain our modest footprint.

Any problem created by humans can be solved by humans, sealions be damned.

[Clouds Passing]

126. No wonder the rich are acting like greedy goons. They believe they are the only ones who will be saved.

So they’re stealing as many resources as they can.

They know this information about climate change and they’ve known it for a long time. They’re been preparing for it while lying to us that it does not exist.

I suspect the wealthy of this earth have caused climate change, possibly even intentionally. They want what’s under those ice caps. I read an article about 20 years ago in the paper, the writers sounded literally gleeful about the resources under the polar caps and which industries would benefit most. They each have their underground stocked full luxury bunkers so to hell with the rest of us.

This is so fucked up.

[Snackshack]

128. We are just along for the ride now.

This clip from 'Newsroom' captures the reality very clearly. This was filmed when we were at ~420ppm of CO2 in our atmosphere, today we are at ~423ppm...

'The Uninhabitable Earth' by David Wallace-Wells should have been required reading almost a decade ago.

[BlueWavePsych]

131. It's a hoax.

[mucholderthandirt]

132. It's been too late since the 70s, at least. No one wanted to admit it.

But, this is where greed and hatred get you. Humanity never learns. We never learn anything. So we will die and maybe the planet will recover. I just hope the next species to rise up has more sense, and is less crazy.

[Jack Valentino]

135. I fear that he is quite right, and the MAGATS will boil in their beds

along with the majority who don't deserve to do so---
other than those who may have voted WRONG in the last election...


Luckily for me, I am somewhat older, and believe that I will die
long before the worst comes----

and have never been blessed with any children whom I need to worry about---
(although I am sorry for nephews and nieces and their progeny---
but I do the little that I can do--- mostly "recycling" responsibly)


so if there is to be any hope for the human race on this planet,
the burden to save it falls upon the YOUNG---
hopefully enough of them are paying attention, and will VOTE

[fujiyamasan]

136. I think you have listed some good ideas

The thinking here should be local and we should be looking more into mitigation and building cities smarter and more resilient to extreme weather events, but I think politically, the fight against climate change has not been sold well at all.

Climate change is the unfortunate price we have had to pay for civilization as we know it. We’re human. We build stuff. But we need that stuff so bad. Lots and lots of stuff. And how is it possible to deny the billions of people in developing countries their ability to get that stuff?

It’s not. It’s bullshit. I see even on this thread a tendency to simply shift the blame to china and India because they want a better standard of living. Oh it’s not about per capita emissions. It’s about total emissions. Well, they have a combined population somewhere around 2.8 billion, so of course their total emissions will be higher. The reality is they’ll pay their own price for not addressing their emmisons. People are choking on their air in cities like New Delhi.

It’s a smart idea to actually look at how to engineer our cities to make them livable in the future. That of course isn’t happening in this country.

And the issue is simply not resonating for most Americans either, at least not to where it’s prioritized over their own economic well being. One of the polls show how democrats placed it within their top 3 issues in the last election, but for most other voters it ranked well behind the economy, inflation, and immigration. My guess is taxes and crime would be bigger day to day priorities too.

The reality is Biden spent a lot of political capital on this and it paid few dividends. His only “sin” was the willow lease, which he likely had no choice on and for that activists went apeshit. Ok, good luck with Trump then.

Sorry I’m too jaded over this but the reality is this is just another class warfare issue. Most people don’t have the day to day energy to deal with this issue. It’s too big to comprehend. They certainly don’t want to be lectured at by wealthy celebrities. And unless you actually personalize it, it will be so big it will simply be pushed aside.