General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEconomists were wrong about tariffs. They need to figure out why.
Inflation would surge. Supply chains would crash. And the economy would be plunged into a deep recession while the stock market tanked. When President Donald Trump imposed huge tariffs on imports in April, the mainstream economic establishment and the big forecasters on Wall Street were virtually united on one point: The tariffs would trigger stagflation, at best, and a deep slump, at worst. It sounded like life would resemble a post-apocalypse Netflix series, with survivors dodging zombies and fighting one another for the last few items at the mall.
Goldman Sachs put the odds of a full-blown recession at 45 percent. Torsten Slok of private equity firm Apollo, one of the most respected economists on Wall Street, went a lot further, predicting that the odds of what he termed a voluntary trade reset recession were 90 percent. Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman argued that the biggest trade shock in history meant a recession seems likely.
And yet, six months on, events have not unfolded that way. The big thinkers got this one wrong and if economics is to maintain any credibility, they need to address why that happened.
-snip-
Finally, it is starting to look as if the United States actually was getting a raw deal on trade. The U.S. now imposes an average tariff of 18.6 percent, the highest since 1933, according to Yales Budget Lab. And yet prices are rising by only about 3 percent. It turns out the foreign exporters were making enough money from American consumers that they can absorb most of the new tariffs, either in lower profits or through efficiency savings. They are not being paid by American consumers the way that was predicted. The extra $30 billion a month in revenue the tariffs are already generating is not exactly free money (after all, the most enduring lesson of this dismal science is that there is no such thing as a lunch you dont have to pay for). But its as close to it as anything we have seen for a long time.
Washington Post
What economists and the legacy media failed to consider was the enormous profit margins that manufacturers make on their products, and the role elasticity of demand has on pricing.

Bernardo de La Paz
(59,458 posts)yardwork
(68,287 posts)Later in the column he writes:
Goldman Sachs is Trump's "political opponent?" Nonsense.
AI is buoying the U.S. economy. It's too early to say how this will play out but prices are rising and jobs growth is poor.
Mosby
(19,101 posts)Trump doesn't really understand why tariffs can be good, or how to apply them responsibly. But the hysteria from the so called "experts" didn't add anything to the conversation, in fact it led to confusion and misunderstandings.
Eta - consumer spending is up 2.5% for the 2nd quarter, so it's not just AI investments.
yardwork
(68,287 posts)This entire column is based on wishful thinking and a made-up straw man. IMO.
Dawson Leery
(19,489 posts)Small businesses cannot absorb the costs of tariffs.
Celerity
(52,463 posts)The Telegraph (aka the Torygraph) and The Spectator and both RW sources.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Telegraph#Political_stance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spectator#Political_ideology_and_policy_positions
Response to Celerity (Reply #15)
Skittles This message was self-deleted by its author.
QUIRKY??????
yardwork
(68,287 posts)It turns out that this guy predicted that iPhones would be a bust.
Skittles
(168,016 posts)
boy's about as sharp as a bowling ball
KPN
(16,949 posts)are diminishing, debt is growing, winter is coming. This is nothing but cheer leading.
yardwork
(68,287 posts)It's an attempt to discredit financial experts by accusing them of "Trump derangement syndrome."
It's the same as the MAGA discrediting of healthcare providers, scientists, and teachers. Right out of the fascist playbook.
In my experience most US economists are Republicans. Most of them are not wild-eyed socialists with a hatred of Trump that keeps them from thinking straight.
Response to yardwork (Reply #12)
Post removed
yardwork
(68,287 posts)You know tariffs are one of the few tools we have available to us to encourage countries like China, India, Malaysia, Indonesia and Russia to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The above countries are the most polluting countries in the world.
yardwork
(68,287 posts)Maybe you didn't know that.
Mosby
(19,101 posts)You didn't know that?
PeaceWave
(2,156 posts)yardwork
(68,287 posts)Mosby
(19,101 posts)Liberation Day supercharged recession fears. Downturn odds doubled to 40%, and over 80% of U.S. CEOs expected a recession. More than 70% of S&P 500 companies mentioned tariffs in earnings calls.
Yet the economy held steady. Tariff-driven inflation wasnt as severe as feared, and companies were well-positioned to avoid major layoffs. S&P 500 net margins remained solid at 12.3% in the second quarter of 2025 just below the first quarters 12.7% and above the five-year average. Now, the third quarter is on track to be the ninth consecutive quarter of earnings growth, a streak last seen in 2018.
Artificial intelligence (AI) and automation have reshaped the growth story. Tech+ firms now make up nearly half the S&P 500s market cap. Capital spending contributed nearly half of U.S. GDP growth in the first half of 2025, marking a shift away from consumption-led expansion. Innovation and investment have helped the economy weather the storm.
Liberation Day rattled corporate America. Guidance turned cautious. Hiring slowed dramatically. The latest Challenger Report shows hiring plans at their lowest since 2009, with just under 205,000 new jobs announced in 2025 a 58% drop from last year.
However, companies didnt sit still. Strong balance sheets and healthy margins enabled them to adapt diversifying supply chains, near-shoring, adjusting pricing and investing in tech to manage costs.
About 60% of U.S. businesses have said they are considering reshoring production, according to a recent KPMG survey of 300 executives.2 Only about one in ten have started, but the White Houses own tracker is already brimming with major manufacturing pledges from Apple and Nvidia to Ford, General Motors, Bristol Meyers Squib and Biogen.3
Most of those plans are still on paper and include some previously announced commitments but the pace of the shift shows how quickly U.S. companies can pivot under pressure.
...
The S&P 500 is up about 15% this year even after a 19% drawdown and full recovery outpacing its historical annual average. U.S.-listed exchange-traded funds (ETFs) have pulled in $950 billion so far, including a record $150 billion in September.4, 5, 6 Annual flows are on pace to top $1 trillion for the first time.7
Momentum has gone global. European ETFs have raked in around $220 billion of inflows this year,8 and nearly 80% of the 60 global stock markets we track are up at least 10% the strongest breadth of its kind since 2009.9 Emerging markets are leading: Colombia (66%), Greece (66%), Peru (57%), Korea (57%) and South Africa (47%) are the years top five performers (in local currency).
https://www.chase.com/personal/investments/learning-and-insights/article/tmt-october-ten-twenty-five#:~:text=Downturn%20odds%20doubled%20to%2040,the%20economy%20weather%20the%20storm.
KPN
(16,949 posts)American. Tariffs are hitting working class consumers directly via every day expenses. The market may not feel it, but the average consumer sure in hell does.
Skittles
(168,016 posts)we KNOW how fucked we are
PeaceWave
(2,156 posts)yardwork
(68,287 posts)Celerity
(52,463 posts)Lovie777
(20,654 posts)personally not me nor family and friends can, it's rough.
Things are expensive, prices are high, insurance is off the charts.
This shithole administration is hiding the numbers and the propaganda strong. In order to cover-up of the economy and Epstein is staggering.
Now the shithole administration is indicting foes on trumped up charges AND they are attacking US cities and citizens.
The propaganda continues.
Bmoboy
(555 posts)To allow the retail prices to stay the same?
How does that work with coffee or other commodities?
Have all the supply chain participants lowered their prices to keep the goods moving?
I don't have that much faith in the humanitarian intentions of capitalists.
edhopper
(36,709 posts)New jobs are nearly at zero, and the economy is slowing. Economics did not say he would crash the economy in a month, they said he would crash the economy, and he will, it takes a while, my guess is 2026.
Please don't post Right Wing garbage like this.
Wednesdays
(20,972 posts)Check back here in 2029.
OrlandoDem2
(3,127 posts)Plus, they were staggered. We are only just beginning to see the impact.
American farmers, however, are already reeling.
And even if inflation hovers at 3-4% (I think itll be higher), thats still well above the 2% goal that economists like to see.
Furthermore, if importers eat most of the costs, thats less profits for advertising, insurance coverage, R&D, expansion of any sort, raises, and so much more. Therefore money is taken out of the economy is numerous ways through these godforsaken tariffs!
BootinUp
(50,525 posts)For example, any predictions they cite were undoubtedly tied to the most extreme tariffs that were not kept in place. And two, the damage is far from over and the dust has not settled. And three, see Krugman today for more and better written summaries.
wiggs
(8,492 posts)of credit for Biden's cease fire plan.
Irish_Dem
(76,111 posts)He was able to funnel huge sums of money to his pocket and not crash the economy.
Ocelot II
(127,681 posts)"Apple will sell a few to its fans, but the iPhone won't make a long-term mark on the industry."
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/saw-this-on-reddit-tonight-a-2007-iphone-will-fail-column.2240010/
So there's that.
Celerity
(52,463 posts)
https://archive.ph/J2XY
To its many fans, Apple is more of a religious cult than a company. An iToaster that downloads music while toasting bread would probably get the same kind of worldwide attention. Don't let that fool you into thinking that it matters. The big competitors in the mobile-phone industry such as Nokia Oyj and Motorola Inc. won't be whispering nervously into their clamshells over a new threat to their business. The iPhone is nothing more than a luxury bauble that will appeal to a few gadget freaks. In terms of its impact on the industry, the iPhone is less relevant.
If column inches and airtime guaranteed commercial success, Apple would already have a global hit on its hands. For the past week, it has been impossible to open a newspaper or look at a Web site without reading something about the shiny new phone. Certainly, it looks like a nice piece of equipment. The iPhone combines Apple's iPod music and video player with a mobile phone as well as having wireless Internet access for e-mail. Instead of lugging around a phone for making calls, an MP3 player for listening to music, and a Blackberry for checking your e- mail, you can do all three on one device. Even better, you only need one charger. It will be released in the U.S. in June, with a rollout to the rest of the world later, and will cost $499 to $599, depending on how much storage space you want. How many might they sell? Ten million in 2008, according to Apple Chief Executive Officer Steve Jobs.
Three Reasons
Not everyone is sold on the idea. ``The iPhone will not substantially alter the fundamental structure and challenges of the mobile industry,'' Charles Golvin, an analyst at Forrester Research Inc., said in a report this month. There are three reasons that Apple is unlikely to make much of an impact on this market -- and why it is too early to start dumping your Nokia shares.
First, Apple is late to this party. The company didn't invent the personal computer or MP3 player, but it was among the pioneers of both products. Yet there is no shortage of phones out there. There are already big companies that dominate the space, all of whom will defend their turf. That means Apple will have to fight hard for every sale. Next, the mobile-phone industry depends on cooperation with the big networks. Phones -- the high-end ones in particular --are usually sold with a network contract. The provider subsidizes the handset in the U.K. and hopes to recoup its money with ridiculously expensive charges for calls and data. Yet Apple has never been good at working with other companies. If it knew how to do that, it would be Microsoft Corp.
snip
It won't come from the iPhone. Apple will sell a few to its fans, but the iPhone won't make a long-term mark on the industry.
(Matthew Lynn is a Bloomberg News columnist. The opinions expressed are his own.)

Ocelot II
(127,681 posts)
bucolic_frolic
(52,737 posts)There are inventories to work off, just-in-time scheduling shipments and deliveries, leftover demand and supply from the pandemic. We're processing two global economic events in 4-1/2 years.
Wapo is full of it here. Companies "absorbed" the cost of tariffs? If so there should be a major hit to corporate profits already and in the months ahead. See any evidence? AI and layoffs are mitigating all of the adverse effects? Everyone is better off?
It's all bunk at this point.
Response to Mosby (Original post)
Post removed
yardwork
(68,287 posts)The fact that it was published today in WaPo shows how bad that source has become.
lostincalifornia
(4,690 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 10, 2025, 03:50 PM - Edit history (1)
bearing the cost, but they are now starting to slip to the consumer.
This economy right now is being supported by 40% of the most affluent consumers, while 60% are having a difficult time of making ends meet.
You havent seen anything yet because everything is in a state of flux and changing daily.
This is the elephant in the room that many have been trying to avoid.
This morning it was all brought into focus when trump used his social posts to start to push again higher tariffs on China, and that was just on his threats.
Speculative excesses helped give us the Great Depression, and tariffs and trade wars made it last much longer than it needed to be.
Consumers will eventually be paying for these tariffs, and yes, Lawrence is right, tariff's are a tax that are paid for by the American public.
He can play the game that will give those over 65 up to 12000 tax deduction, and no tax on tips to offset those increases due to the tariffs, and a promise to bail out the farmers, but no one should be fooled into this con game. The tariffs are not going to pay off the deficit, nor are they going to curb the inflation that is already impacting consumers. Much of those tariffs will pay for the tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans, but what happens to those who are losing their jobs?
Cutting programs that help the most vulnerable in our society is going to have consequences, and we will all pay for it one way or another.
Kingofalldems
(39,932 posts)Krazy_Kat
(62 posts)He says the de facto tariff rate is around 10% right now instead of 17%, and companies are absorbing the higher costs because they are reluctant to raise prices, but that will change sooner rather than later. More here:
https://open.substack.com/pub/paulkrugman/p/leprechauns-effective-tariffs-and?r=bllh&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
PeaceWave
(2,156 posts)I did a lot of comparison pricing the last few days during Amazon Prime Day. The prices on electronics were routinely between 20% and 30% higher than last year. Consumers know what we are seeing online and at the grocery store. Suggesting that we should not believe our lying eyes is - again - nothing short of propaganda.
Mosby
(19,101 posts)Some of the import fraud is pricing related, companies are intentionally mistating the wholesale price thus paying less tariffs.
DallasNE
(7,884 posts)About net earnings when 3rd quarter earnings are posted and compared to same period last year. How much are they parking in the Cayman Islands?
BannonsLiver
(19,732 posts)Even accepting the author's premise, the litany of things he said were talked about but did not happen that would be bad for the economy, are solely dependent on the continued largesse of those companies taking smaller profits. Who in their right mind would ever bet on that continuing in perpetuity?
yardwork
(68,287 posts)DallasNE
(7,884 posts)I was early to forecast stagflation and I am seeing stagflation. Some may quibble over the amount, but it has arrived. Grocery prices are soaring, with many prices up 20% since Trump took office. The labor picture, if reported, would show contraction. That is stagnation, friends.
Wiz Imp
(7,667 posts)Kingofalldems
(39,932 posts)DFW
(59,123 posts)The drastic ones that were rescinded three days after their much-headlined announcements, or the ones that are already bankrupting farmers nationwide?
Emile
(38,210 posts)Volatility sucks
Wiz Imp
(7,667 posts)This article was published today in the Telegraph (UK Paper):
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/10/nobel-peace-prize-irrelevant-trump-diplomatic-coup/
Maria Corina Machado is a brave and resourceful woman, but its clear who the real winner of this years award should be
She is, by all accounts, a brave and resourceful woman. Maria Corina Machado has led the fight for freedom and democracy in Venezuela with courage and dignity. Perhaps she will eventually help bring about real change in a country that has suffered from a succession of terrible rulers.
And yet surely almost anyone apart from the Nobel Peace Prize committee in Oslo can see who the real winner of this years award should be: President Trump. Sure, we will have to see if it holds, but the ceasefire in Gaza is the diplomatic coup of the century.
The sceptics said it could never be done. The two sides were too far apart. Too much blood had already been spilled. And that the fanatics on both sides would never settle for anything less than total victory and the complete annihilation of the other side.
And yet despite all that President Trump will, so long as everything goes to plan, be in Egypt this weekend to attend a signing ceremony. The hostages will be released. And the fighting will stop at least for now.
This is one of the biggest loads of shit I have ever read.
obamanut2012
(28,900 posts)blm
(114,340 posts)to assess.
Midwestern Democrat
(985 posts)I have never bought into the neoliberal consensus on unfettered free trade - I well remember this same exact establishment consensus cheerleading NAFTA and mocking Ross Perot, the AFL-CIO, and anyone else who opposed it as parochial morons - so this was one of the few issues I was broadly in agreement with Trump on.
BootinUp
(50,525 posts)Most of his excellent work on substack is free.
There is no mystery about the advantages of free trade. It simply means that goods are eventually produced by the most efficient means. It doesn't mean that governments have fair taxation or wisely invest in their country or do anything else wisely or fairly.
Keepthesoulalive
(1,878 posts)What could it be?