I'm the type of person who has always been proud to pay his income taxes.

[LuckyCharms]

Most people don't especially like paying taxes, but I kind of do. It's a cost to us because we live in society.

In a society, things that benefit us need to be paid for, because nothing comes for free.

Now, there are several tax laws that I don't particularly like, and I don't like that fact that corporations, and singular billionaires, can literally skirt paying ANY taxes if they work hard enough to find and take advantage of loop holes.

In spite of this, I've always viewed paying income taxes as my duty as a citizen. The same with voting. It's my duty and responsibility.

But now...I'm having these gnawing feelings of despair, because I feel like my income taxes are eventually finding their way into Trump's pocket, ICE bonuses, kidnappings on the street, and military equipment and personal to blow up small fishing boats.

I'm nobody, nobody in the big picture. But still, what little of it there is, it's MY money, and I don't want it to go into Trump's pockets. I don't want one cent to go to ICE so they can harass food vendors and chase scared Americans (or people of any nationality) into their homes, making them fearful to go outside again for the rest of their lives.

I'm thinking really hard, trying to figure out if I'm a hypocrite in a way, because I never felt this way when thinking about contributing to the funding of foreign wars. I don't like it, but I view it as that's "just the way it is and I have to grin and bear it".

But what is happening now feels different to me. I draw a picture in mind of my paltry sum of money getting stuffed into the suit jacket pocket of the orange one. Because that's where a lot of our taxes end up, one way or another.

In the meantime...people starve.

I know this post is a little convoluted, and some parts may be contradictory, but I can't help feeling this way. I'm having trouble expressing this entire concept without coming across as a hypocrite.

If anyone responds, please don't hit me with "but you didn't mind paying money to fund the wars in Afghanistan, Israel, etc". I know...and that's why I'm struggling with the nature of how I'm currently feeling. It's hard to put into words.

And the reason maybe why I feel like a hypocrite is...do I feel this way because the brutality is hitting too close to home now?

I'm really doing some soul searching about this all of this...

[Bluestocking]

1. I am okay with paying taxes

since my Federal tax payments go to:

Pay the air traffic controllers
Pay for the VA to help old and sick Veterans
Pay for programs that help the poor like WIC
Pay for arming the Ukrainians in their war against Russia
Pay for the national parks
Pay the salaries of Democratic congresspeople
Pay the TSA
Pay for the Federal highway system upkeep
Pay for NASA

None of my tax dollars go to any Republicans or ICE

[LuckyCharms]

2. Really?

"None of my tax dollars go to any Republicans or ICE"

[Ms. Toad]

10. Unless you are paying only retirement taxes, your tax dollars are going to both ICE and the salaries of Republicans

employed by the US government (including Trump).

[MerryBlooms]

19. 🤭

[rsdsharp]

3. " Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society."

Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes.

Do we still have to pay if the society is no longer civilized?

[LuckyCharms]

5. I guess we still do...

Because if we don't, the gestapo will be all up in our faces like stink on monkey.

It's an amazing world we are living in.

Amazing, but not in a good way.

[yellow dahlia]

15. Reasonable question.

[SamKnause]

4. I never complain when I pay my taxes.

I see all the things tax dollars do, and all the things I use that were paid for with tax dollars.

I thought that was how society is suppose to work.

[LuckyCharms]

6. I feel the same, but now...

nothing is working as it should.

The rotting orange pumpkin completely ignores Congress, who holds the purse strings.

He does what HE wants...not what the individuals who were elected to represent us want.

Come to think of it, Congress doesn't do what most of the American people want either.

It's FUBAR.

[Emile]

7. Taxes are the price to live in a civilized country.

People who complain about paying their share, should move.

[Prairie_Seagull]

8. You are not alone. nt

[ForgedCrank]

9. It is human

to be flawed. Yes, you are human, and you are flawed, and there is some level of hypocrisy in your feelings. But guess what? Every single one of us does this at one level or another. We are human, and we have opinions. We mock the right for demanding their tax dollars don't fund abortion, then we insist ours don't fund immigration enforcement. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a position on different matters. Where I take issue is when we dehumanize one another over opinions. I'm not saying you are doing that, but a lot of people are, including right here on DU. The Charlie Kirk thing was a really big eye opener for me; the way people behaved was downright shocking to me. Those are the lines I'm talking about. not simply having a differing opinion.
I once was in a really civil conversation with a "pro-life" parishioner at my church who said they thought late term abortion was evil. I asked them how they calculated that, as in, where is the date line and how do you draw it? They were 100% honest with me and said that they felt it was never a good thing, but within the first 2 months was more acceptable and they had zero input on a formula used to calculate that dividing line, it was just personal feeling. There is absolutely nothing invalid about that even though it is neither a logical nor a strict approach. Not everything must be black or white, that is a trap we often fall into.
So I don't think you really have an ethical dilemma. You would if you were a statistician arguing among peers, but that's now what most of us are. Yes, your reasoning has a flaw only in that you cannot apply your reasoning to every single subject with predictability using a stated formula.. Again, we are ALL like that when it comes to certain subjects, so I wouldn't let it weigh too much.
Just my opinion on the matter.

[LuckyCharms]

11. Valid.

Thanks.

[Lifeafter70]

12. Every year we owe about 2k in Federal taxes

And we have the max withheld from our checks. Our combined gross income each year is around 75k.

Occasional a customer will complain about paying taxes while I'm ringing up their groceries. I always let them know that I don't mind paying and why. That usually stops their complaining.

There was one young lady who had recently moved back to California from Georgia, complaining about the high cost of food and taxes. I let her know while many other states (including Georgia) taxed groceries California did not. She insisted I was wrong. I showed her the register tape, which had no taxes on her food Items. Her reply was "well they used". Nope not in the my 73 years.

Edited to add: california did try to tax candy and soda and that failed. They do tax prepared "hot deli food" it is considered convience food similar to eating at a restaurant.

[ForgedCrank]

13. I don't

see it that way.
You are correct, there is no line item on the receipt for sales tax on food.
That said, choose one item. For simplicity. make it an apple since it has but one ingredient for raw materials. Before that apple got to the shelf...

- Tree had to be planted by someone who got paid a wage.
- Ground has to be tended with both labor and equipment
- equipment takes fuel to operate
- fertilizer and insecticides have to be applied, also with labor
- the fruit has to be harvested, equipment and labor
- it has to be packaged into boxes that are purchased
- it has to be QC's and inspected
- it has to be shipped to a distributor on our roads in trucks that are taxed
-it has to be shipped to the individual stores all using road equipment
- it has to be unloaded from the truck and stocked on a shelf
- a cashier must ring it all up for you, more labor

This is a very simple list as the real one is a complex tree that runs deep and it probably 200X this long in reality. For example, just the cardboard box the apples are packed in has an entire chain of it's own. ALL of these things are taxed from the top, to the bottom, including every wage dollar paid out to make it all happen,. Fuel tax, tire tax, sales tax on equ... tax on equip repairs, people to manage all of that, they are taxed. So that $1 apple that is not taxed at the register is really a 25c apple and 75c worth of tax overhead that is hidden in the cost to produce it. Obviously I'm taking a wild guess on the percentages here, but more dollars are filtered through government as taxes than people are able to realize. The majority of all dollars pass through the hands of and are spent by government than the people themselves. People would revolt if they ever sat down and realized just how much money government takes

[Lifeafter70]

14. I understand what you are saying about hidden taxes

But that wasn't what this young lady was talking about. She was stating she was taxed at her point of sale. Which was not the case. She kept insisting that to be true until she actually looked at the receipt. She did see taxes but it was clearly accounted for on non food items.

[ProfessorGAC]

17. See My Reply To That Poster

Well over half the things they listed are not hidden taxes. They aren't taxes of any kind.

[ProfessorGAC]

16. A Bit Confusing

How are;
QC, Labor & Equipment, fertilizer, distribution (absent fuel tax), store staff wages, ...hidden taxes.
Those are assignable costs to produce, not taxes.
If labor is 20% of total cost to produce, the payroll taxes are only 11% of that, or 2.2% of cost to produce.
All those items add to the direct cost of the apple. That's not a tax.
Your example seems to conflating assignable costs with taxes. They are hardly the same thing.
It would be like bundling the cost of crude & operational cost of refining into the retail price of gasoline. The petroleum & operating costs are COSTS, not taxes.
Not sure where you're going with this.

[Lifeafter70]

18. Thank you

[ForgedCrank]

20. All of

those things are taxed. Producers don't just assign the cost of post-tax salaries. It's the same with all services all through the chain, for every single component or element. If someone makes raw plastic, the cost is a total including taxes on every step and salary, but it is down to every element, including the TAX they pay for electricity, property, employee salaries, equipment (that is also massively inflated by it's own production chain and the included taxes). It is stacked miles deep, and it is all taxed at every level in the same ways and it compounds into huge totals by the time the price tag is attached for the consumer. No, it's not pure tax, it is a percentage, but it IS in the assigned cost of every single step and every single element, and it is consistent throughout the chain. So yes, they are the same thing. The label "tax" is just stripped away because it is in the cost of producing everything. The taxes are included in all of those things and it is all passed on to the next step in every product and every item in a BOM to produce something. It's layered many companies deep all along the chain.

[ProfessorGAC]

21. Not All

You should quit digging.
Salaries are not taxed beyond the payroll taxes which I mentioned.
Equipment is not taxed.
In fact, depreciation on that hardware is a non-cash expense, which actually lowers the tax liability.
You are lecturing someone with an MBA and worked for multibillion dollar, multinational corporations.
You are simply wrong about this

[ForgedCrank]

23. Ok, you

win. I am completely wrong and I should be ashamed.
Congrats

[mainer]

22. Now I want my taxes to go to my state

At least then I know where it's going.