Am I oversimplifying this?

[senseandsensibility]

I don't think that Dems should be made to feel that they are hypocrites for supporting Platner. This has never been about Dems claiming to be perfect or to only support perfect candidates.

Platner is certainly flawed. But he's admitted it and apologized. Equating his situation with trump, who has never admitted anything, even when he is found guilty by a jury, is not fair. Trump has not apologized or said that he has learned from his misdeeds.

Of course it is up to Maine voters to judge Platner's sincerity. That's their call and I will leave it up to them But again, he is taking responsibility and learning from his mistakes which is way more than maga ever got from trump.

[kimbutgar]

1. This is the same shite they did with Franken

that was that much scandalous and the orange DICKtator has done 1000x worst!


Our MSM sucks.

[senseandsensibility]

2. The Franken thing

was a travesty.

[pat_k]

83. And to anyone that questions your statement:

New Yorker
The Case of Al Franken
Jane Mayer
July 22, 2019

https://web.archive.org/web/20190829044419/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/29/the-case-of-al-franken

[Scrivener7]

16. I disagree a bit. Platner is certainly guilty of a lot more creepiness than Franken, and we know that's true.

However, barring some twist (that seems unlikely as Mainers seem to be sticking with him,) he's the guy who will be facing Collins.

I don't like the guy. But we need every seat we can get so we can control the committees and start to rebuild our Democracy. And he polls the best against Collins.

I dislike him less than I want to see Collins sent packing and I want to get a Senate majority.

[MustLoveBeagles]

22. That's where I'm at with the whole drama

We don't have to be the guys friend. And we need as many Dem butts in the seats as we can to nullify Fetterman's votes.

[kimbutgar]

29. You make a good point getting back the senate and house is too important!

[allegorical oracle]

51. Wish my Bernie Bros friends could've done that in 2016. We might've avoided what

we're now enduring. And I love Bernie, too.

[pat_k]

84. Hey...

If truly vile people like Derek Black, Christian Picciolini, Arno Michaelis can transform and become leaders in the anti-racist, non-violent movement, I have no problem giving the benefit of the doubt to a man who is effectively advocating for progressive values, but who has previously screwed up big time (and for which he has taken responsibility and whose wife clearly stands by the guy and says they've done, and continue to do "the work" )

[Scrivener7]

96. I hope he pans out. And if he doesn't, it is still one more seat.

[Llewlladdwr]

3. Yes.

It amazes me how this place has gone from "Punch a Nazi!" to "Well, sometimes you just have to vote for the Nazi" so quickly. 🤪

[NoRethugFriends]

5. Do you have a clue how much damage Collins has done?

Do you know how many deaths she is responsible for?
Even if Plattner were a Nazi, he would be doing so much less damage than Collins.
No ivory towers in politics.

[ananda]

6. Yeah, Collins really needs to go.

It's way past time to kick her out the door.

[Llewlladdwr]

7. There are two other candidates running in the Primary

Neither has a totenkopf tattoo or has been known to make misogynistic, racist, or homophobic comments. Neither is known for hanging out on sketchy dating sites or expressing a fondness for masturbating in skiddo cans. We couldn't get behind one of them?

[NoRethugFriends]

9. And they don't have a chance of winning the primary, which is in 5 days. What don't you understand???

[Llewlladdwr]

14. Here's what I understand...

Once he's the official Maine Democratic candidate for Senate he becomes the face of the national party. Democrats are going to have to defend him. There is more dirt to come on this guy and I believe he's going to be a drag on the entire party.

[NoRethugFriends]

81. No. He becomes the face of the Democratic candidate for senate in Maine.

So you'd prefer Susan Collins? Because that's your only other choice right now/

[CivicGrief]

13. The hard truth is it is him or Collins.

So you have the guy who had a tattoo that he may or may not have known had a nazi association and had covered up (the rest is just hearsay) or the woman who voted to fund the fascists abducting, imprisoning, and killing defenseless immigrants, not to mention brutalizing and killing civilians. Glad you polished your moral compass.

[Llewlladdwr]

18. This is such a bogus line of defense.

I'm supposed to believe that Platner never saw Raiders of the Lost Ark? Schindler's List? Iron Skies? An episode of Hogan's Heroes? Any media in which Nazis are portrayed? They wear the freaking totenkopf on their hats, fer cryin' out loud!

[senseandsensibility]

21. I understand that you find Platner's past conduct disqualifying

and I respect your opinion. I hope that you feel free to express it in this thread. I did want this OP to be a place where different opinions can be expressed.

[Llewlladdwr]

33. Thank you!

I appreciate that very much. I just feel very strongly that a Platner candidacy is going to have repercussions nationally that aren't being considered. Maine will do what Maine will do, I guess.

[senseandsensibility]

40. Yes they will

It will be decided by people who live in Maine, and I don't live there. I've had my own reservations about Platner to be sure, but again, it's not my state. If I understand you correctly, you are warning against his nomination because you think it will be used against the party as a whole in the general. And given the history of double standard with regard to the way Rs and Ds are judged, you may be right. But after he wins the nomination (I assume he will), will you be able to support him?

[Llewlladdwr]

50. If he's the nominee I will not work against him.

I'm in Texas thank God, so I don't have to vote for him if it comes to it. But no, I cannot actively support this man. I will not contribute to his campaign. He's a misogynist, a racist, a homophobe, a philanderer...I refuse to believe that Graham Platner is the best the Democratic party can do.

[pat_k]

85. Do I wish the unions had recruited someone who had been vetted in a previous campaigns for something?

Yeah.

But they didn't.

They recruited Graham Platner. I put trust in that judgment. And I believe he remains a hell of a candidate.

I don't live in Maine, but I'll do my bit to support his candidacy. And do my bit to just say "NO" to the forces that are trying to incite a mob against him.

I have no doubt that Mr. Platner understands the role his conduct is playing. As far as I can tell he is is taking responsibility for that. And that shows character IMO.

Whether my judgment of him is right or wrong, what I do know for certain is that is that it is:

WRONG for a campaign staffer to leak something his wife revealed as part of the internal vetting process.

WRONG to report that betrayal of trust as if his wife was an accuser, instead of what she was, a part of a couple that has done, and continues to do, the work -- a person who feels deeply betrayed by the breach of trust.

WRONG to report an account of a violent interaction for which there is no concrete corroboration, while offering so-called "support" that amounts to little more than vague innuendo.

WRONG to pile on with reports of "unsettling" behavior as if he had been a rapist.

[CivicGrief]

37. Keep banging your head while the

real threats to the country go unabated. I saw a genuine Mainer saying that the Senate holding dump to account is the most important thing. You “deftly” avoided answering to the idea of Collins being re-elected and the actual fascism on our streets. I get the sense you are concerned as you mull which is worse.

[Llewlladdwr]

63. You can't hold anyone to account if you have no power.

I don't believe Platner will be helpful in the Dems taking power. In fact, I think he hurts the party nationally.

I guess we'll see...

[H2O Man]

38. Maybe, but

we can ignore the truth, a sure-fire way to win elections. We need more people attacking our party's candidates, in my opinion. It always results in victory.

[republianmushroom]

52. You nail it.

It is either put up and support Platner or shut up an accept Collins. Your choice.

[Scrivener7]

17. No. Mainers haven't gotten behind one of them like they've gotten behind Platner.

[Raven123]

49. Are you a Maine voter? I am not.

In my mind, those are the “we” who count. I think every state has its own culture. I have read that Platner has put in the foot work, meeting people and gaining their support.

[Mossfern]

10. Is he a Nazi?

Besides a tattoo, what's your proof?
I thought we support Democrats here on DU.

[Llewlladdwr]

11. Do you need more than the tatoo?

[Mossfern]

12. Yes

[Llewlladdwr]

15. Okay...

Are the racist, misogynistic, homophobic comments that Platner has admitted to making enough? Are his comments about rape survivors enough?

[MineralMan]

20. Now we're hearing from you, eh?

[Llewlladdwr]

25. Yes sir, you are.

We got a pretty tight Senate race going here in Texas and frankly, Platner ain't helping. So yes, I will speak up. Whether you like it or not.

[H2O Man]

32. Sure.

There is no doubt that Platner is the biggest issue facing the people of Texas. He's all that the citizens are talking about. Thy don't want to hear meaningless things about the war in Iraq, or the economy. Those are mere distractions from the role Platner is playing in Texas politics.

[Llewlladdwr]

39. Talarico is going to struggle here.

Believe it or not, Texans are aware that there are other states, and that things that happen in other states can affect Texas. The economy here is good and getting better, gas is down to 3.45 a gallon at the station down the street, and a lot of folks here are all in on the Iran war. Those are the facts on the ground. The Democrats have an uphill battle here, and forcing Talarico to defend Platner's crap is not helpful.

[Red Mountain]

74. I wonder how Platner would do against Paxton?

Bet he would wipe the floor with him.

[Phoenix61]

76. Why would Talarico have to defend anyone

running for anything in another state? He's smart enough to answer " I'm focused on helping the people of Texas be able to afford the things they need to live in the great state of Texas!"

[mr715]

82. The easiest answer to give.

I will again recall back to Mamdani, when asked where he would visit as mayor, said he would stay in New York.

When pressed about visiting Israel, he said he would reach out to Jewish communities in NYC, which at the time he aspired to be mayor of.

That framing of local politics and local responsibilities probably won him the election.

If Talarico is going around defending Platner, he isn't making a positive case for himself or a negative case against Ken Paxton. There is plenty going on in Texas, and they aren't going to worry about Maine politics.

Senators represent their state first. It is absurd to think people that otherwise would vote for Talarico would vote for Paxton because of the decision of primary voters in Maine -- an electorate they share only some similarities with.

[MineralMan]

19. It's also amazing how people who

almost never post show up and post when there's a Democrat to kick while he's down. That's amazing, too.

[Llewlladdwr]

23. Hi MineralMan, I know you're trying to call me out.

Platner is not yet the nominee. I think selecting him as the nominee will be a drag on the party nationally. Every candidate in every race everywhere is going to have to answer for him. We'll be hearing about his racism, misogyny, and homophobia from now until November. We'll be very fortunate if we don't get pictures of his junk or some racy chat logs with a fifteen year old before the election is over, and Dems at the national level will have to speak to all of this because Republicans will be blasting every bit of dirt they have 24/7.

If the voters in Maine really want this guy they'll have him, but I think it's a bad idea and I'm not afraid to say that.

[H2O Man]

36. Like clockwork.

Thank goodness that we have a brave voice, not afraid to talk about how Platner's campaign is influencing Texas's politics. Way too many people on DU have fallen for the silly distractions such as the war in Iran, the economy, and the need to elect Democrats to the House and Senate. Come on, people! Do not ignore the fact that my 30-year old water heater shit the bed last week, definitely a result of Platner's campaign.

[Llewlladdwr]

41. Whistlin' past the graveyard...

If you choose to believe that Platner won't be hung like an albatross around every Democratic candidates neck I can't stop you. But the only things I'm holding Platner responsible for are his own admitted actions.

[H2O Man]

44. Nice song

that you are whistling. I had agreed 100% with you that Platner is the single largest issue facing not only our country, and to the republic for which it stands, but the world. I am convinced it is the stumbling block to a resolution to the war in Iran. Thus, it is essential that you keep whistling that song. It's more than Mineral Man talking about you, I suspect. I am speaking not about Platner's past, in any sense of the word. For his campaign is surely less important than the valuable information you are providing the DU community with on how he is hurting Democrats in Texas! It's not like we could expect the media, from corporate to pod cast, to dare to address or undress this issue. It's up to you!

[Llewlladdwr]

55. Oh, I've no doubt I'm causing consternation among DU's inner sanctum.

The truth is rarely welcome here, and I expect to receive my pizza shortly.

[CivicGrief]

61. Nice generalization.

What truth? You don’t like Platner? Got it.

[Llewlladdwr]

65. The truth is Graham Platner is a horrible candidate.

He's also a horrible human being. By his own admission. No, I do not like him.

All those things are true.

[CivicGrief]

73. Seem like opinions to me.

Except you don’t like him.

[CivicGrief]

47. What do you hold Collins responsible for?

I hold her responsible for funding kidnapping and murder on the streets. But while you keep running with the tabloid-inspired news, real people are being hurt all over the country.

[Llewlladdwr]

56. You can't hold her accountable if you aren't in control.

In my opinion Platner makes it more difficult for the party nationally.

[CivicGrief]

58. I disagree with your second assertion.

This is not a national election, and I don’t believe people consider candidates in other states when voting in their own state. The polls in Maine favor Platner.

[Llewlladdwr]

62. You are wrong.

All elections, especially those for Federal office, are watched by people in every state. Has everyone here forgotten Christine O'Donnell? We smeared her as a witch and made every single republican answer for her. Painted the whole party as crazy. You think the Republicans aren't looking to return the favor?

[CivicGrief]

64. You sure are full of yourself.

And full of other things unmentionable.

[Llewlladdwr]

66. Right back at cha CivicGrief.

You're the one supporting the racist, misogynistic, homophobic, horn dog with the totenkopf tattoo, not me.

[CivicGrief]

72. I'm simply stating

that he is the only viable candidate who can defeat Collins, which has to happen. She is an enabler for much worse people than Platner who have done irreparable harm. You seem to ignore this fact and are revving up the attack machine you are so worried about.

[StevieM]

91. I remember Christine O'Donnell.

Actually, she had a history of dabbling in bizarre stuff when she was younger. I seem to recall that she pushed back by insisting that she never pledged a coven, or something like that.

I don't think we smeared her that bad. We mostly focused on her right-wing politics in that race, and how they were out of step for Delaware. The witchcraft stuff was mainly a source of amusement.

In any event, I don't remember Republican candidates across America being forced to answer for her or scrambling to distance themselves from her. They all had their own races with their own issues. Besides, the Republicans won big in the 2010 midterms, minus Christine O'Donnell, who lost. Clearly the rest of her party were not being held to account for the words or actions of some random Senate candidate in Delaware.

[mr715]

99. It was clearly because of sorcery.

Christine O'Donnell just used some expired eye of newt.

[MineralMan]

46. And my garage door won't open.

It's a conspiracy, no doubt.

[H2O Man]

48. Your garage door

not working is huge news in Texas. Platner's obvious role in this puts Texas elections at risk!

[Llewlladdwr]

59. I talked to some folks here MineralMan...

And the consensus appears to be that you may need to change the battery in the garage door remote.

Texas is always ready to help!

[mr715]

67. Platner got control of Elon's lasers?

[AloeVera]

77. So Platner is now a "Nazi"?

He's been called every other slur under the sun so sure, why not a Nazi too? The worst of the worst. But maybe we can go further and just call him Lucifer. A new twist on the old demonization trick.

Susan Collins thanks us for our service.

Good read on the Nazi shit here:

https://archive.is/gMNpr

[H2O Man]

79. Not only that,

but he was on the Grassy Knoll. Texas races are at risk. Plus he was the bad guy at My Lai, and the baddest guy at Wounded Knee. If that's not bad enough, he dropped the bomb on the Iranian little girls' school. He murdered Marilyn Monroe, too.

I thought that I would post these dire "facts" before anyone else decided to scare us with them.

[AloeVera]

94. Yup. Been around for a long, long year...

Please allow me to introduce myself...

?si=Gm6yKAdxHZ0g4nVY

[pat_k]

86. I'm interested in the link but am getting an error.

[AloeVera]

93. "Graham Platner Is No Nazi" NYT Opinion piece

By Michelle Goldberg.

Here it is, hope it works.

https://archive.ph/gMNpr

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/08/opinion/graham-platner-nazi-tattoo-maine.html

[pat_k]

97. Thanks!

The direct one is working and I happen to have nyt.

[LudwigPastorius]

90. ...especially when there is a perfectly acceptable Democrat in the race.

But, what do I know?

Forget it, Jake. It's Maine.

[Prairie_Seagull]

4. The idea of an admittedly flawed person

rethinking past decisions and making a change for the better, Is admirable to my thinking. That said I would weight heavily, recent relationships over a time.

Good luck Mainers.

[senseandsensibility]

45. It is admirable and I believe in redemption

I'm not necessarily talking about the religious kind. But Mainers will have to be the ones to judge if he's sincere or not. At least he has tried to make amends, unlike trump and other Rs.

[Skittles]

8. there's a big wide world between PERFECTION and that guy

SERIOUSLY

[Llewlladdwr]

42. Apparently, the gap isn't as wide as one might think.

Kinda sad, really

[mr715]

68. There is a difference between the space between 1 and 2

and the space between 0 and 1.

In the first case, it is a difference of magnitude.

In the second case, it is a difference of magnitude and a change of category.


I want Susan Collins to lose. I also want good policy.

[Skittles]

71. alrighty then

[EdmondDantes_]

24. The problem is his apology for the reddit comments looks less than sincere

If he's still being abusive towards his partners I'm 2021 and then sexting on his wife right after marriage, to me it either looks a lot like he fundamentally doesn't respect women and/or he hasn't done nearly enough work on himself to really change.

And walking back his apology on that stupid tattoo doesn't help. He went from acknowledging it looked like a totenkopf and getting it covered to saying it wasn't that at all. And now we have a second source saying he called it his totenkopf so his apology that he walked back looks shakier.

Saying he's learned when his actions don't demonstrate it is easy. Words are cheap. If I tell you I can run a 3 minute mile are you going to believe me just because I said it?

[ColoringFool]

27. My Favorite Name In All Of Fiction. 😉

[questionseverything]

30. Please stop pretending the republican operative can be believed

You have a habit of taking an accusation and presenting it like it’s true when it’s not

[EdmondDantes_]

43. And what about the other two women who are Democrats?

And you have a habit of believing unfounded conspiracy theories even when all the evidence says otherwise and refusing to change your mind when presented with evidence. So I don't give your admonishment much weight that I'm too gullible.

Do you have an example of 3 women independently accusing a guy of being abusive and it's false? Or are you just pretending that dismissing one means dismissing all of them?

[pat_k]

89. The anatomy of a smear

What looks like a duck and walks like a duck is often not a duck at all.

New Yorker
The Case of Al Franken
Jane Mayer
July 22, 2019

https://web.archive.org/web/20190829044419/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/29/the-case-of-al-franken

Start with a drip drip, then pile on everything you can possibly dig up without looking past the surface. Release in rapid succession so there's no time for individual reports to be scrutinized. Cue outrage at "nothing terrible in isolation, but look at the number of them!"

The goal is to incite a mob mentality. Cue the pitchforks and torches.

It sure looks like some entity is orchestrating the smear of Platner following the same playbook.

[ColoringFool]

26. 1.) Lowest Bar Possible. 2.) Who's "Equating"? 3.) Yes, 'Tis true. If One Is Not....

From Maine, one must perforce "leave it up to" the voting residents.

Even commentary. Or so I've read on DU.

[H2O Man]

28. Recommended.

We continue to be in an era where too many people identify as victims and have a compulsive need to express their outrage. I would suggest that we need to be strong now, which includes recognizing that there never has been, is not now, nor ever will be a perfect person. And if there ever is, they sure as fuck are not going to become a politician.

[multigraincracker]

31. I made a mistake once. Sorry

[state of stupid]

54. Only once? Does the phrase (If I had a nickel for), I bet you know the rest.

Sometimes I wonder how I made it this far.

[multigraincracker]

60. Boils down to it's hard for me to judge others.

Try to look at the big picture and not look too far back.

[spanone]

34. K&R

[ALBliberal]

35. IMO that purity ship should have left the port when Al Franken

was forced out of the Senate!!!!

[pat_k]

87. My thoughts on re-reading Jane Mayer's "The Case of Al Franken"

Hallmarks of an orchestrated smear
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100221285435

[unblock]

53. If he votes against trump more than 4% of the time, it's an improvement over Collins.

[al bupp]

57. No, you're definitely not over simplifying

[RoeVWade]

69. Platner won't be immune from indictment, prosecution -- should that come to pass for some reason.

So, there's that. Are you really worried that he gets away Scot free if elected. I'm not.

Now If you're planning to defend Platner no matter what, then you might as well join the Trump loonies.

[CivicGrief]

75. I haven't seen any accusations that are

prosecutable, and don’t see your point.

If you plan to shit on him no matter what, you might as well join the Trump administration.

[RoeVWade]

95. You have it backwards. My point is for the people afraid to vote for him.

Like we're giving up our right to do anything but support him no matter how he turns out.

[marble falls]

78. Some of us seem ready to blow a chance to finally dump Collins.

[JustAnotherGen]

80. To me there's just something off

About him that just makes him unelectable.But then I remember the Dominant Culture voted for Trump 3 times . . . so anything can happen.

[Uncle Joe]

88. Platner will be a real time test as to whether Roy Cohn's training of *rump was correct or not

"Platner is certainly flawed. But he's admitted it and apologized. Equating his situation with trump, who has never admitted anything, even when he is found guilty by a jury, is not fair. Trump has not apologized or said that he has learned from his misdeeds."

The Apprentice (2024) - Trump's 3 rules for life - ending scene

Thanks for the thread senseandsensibility

[Jedi Guy]

92. As I've posted in other threads, for me it's a question of values.

Values are slippery things sometimes and it's very easy to selectively compromise them for convenience or expediency. From where I stand one's values only really matter if one holds true to them even when there's a cost for doing so.

If Platner was some random schmoe and not a Senate candidate I feel pretty confident in saying that people wouldn't be so quick to gloss over his Totenkopf tattoo, nor would they be so quick to casually dismiss the reports of troubling behavior towards women.

I think his protestations of innocence about the tattoo wouldn't be so readily accepted. And I thought the standard was "believe women" and it looks a bit more like "believe women unless doing so is politically inconvenient".

It's uncomfortably close to the way Trump's legions of adoring minions dismissed or ignored the various reports of his troubling behavior because he's their guy, he's on their team.

That's what I see when I look at this situation and i it's kind of disconcerting to watch values being jettisoned so easily in the service of political expediency.

[kentuck]

98. I have not followed the attacks on Platner ver closely...

....mostly because, under the circumstances, it all seemed rather petty.

Sort of like asking if your shoes have been polished, as you stand on the gallows ready to be hanged.

[senseandsensibility]

100. You have a way with words

kentuck.

[underpants]

101. No. We need the numbers.

[Jilly_in_VA]

102. Let me just put it this way

I'd tather have Platner than Fetterman. Is that clear enough for you, or do I need to draw you a picture?

[B.See]

103. To the op,

no, you aren't oversimplifying it. This isn't about politics or 'political expediency.'

We are in a battle... A WAR for control of Congress and as follows, for the survival of DEMOCRACY itself.

An existential crisis in which LIVES AND LIVELIHOODS are on the line.

A war to which MAGAS are bringing guns in the form of threats, intimidation, terrorism...

in the form of assaults upon the right to vote, freedom of the press, our privacy, the freedom of protest,

in the form of assaults upon minorites, women, children, immigrants, the poor, the homeles,

in the form of assaults upon our media and TRUTH itself.

They're bringing guns to this gunfight. So what are we planning on bringing?

Can't believe I still have to write this after all the above and all that's transpired, but

Wake the fuck UP, America!

[-misanthroptimist]

104. As a Maine voter, I'll be voting for Platner

None of this nonsense -which is, imo, unsubstantiated and unfair- is having the slightest effect on me, my wife, or any other of the ME voters I know.

[luv2fly]

105. The most recent thread for people to dump on Platner

Same shit, different day.