Any Newfie owners out there - especially psychiatric service Newfies?

[Ms. Toad]

My daughter is the proud owner of a 2-year old 110 lb Newfie/Pyrenees cross. He appears to have inherited most of the Newfie traits (extremely people-centered, constantly sniffing everything, very bright, largely quiet, not nocturnal). His prior owner was a "let the dog be a dog" type, so not much formal training.

Until he's trained as her service dog, and can go to work with her, I'm walking him 4 days a week while she's at work and helping out with training. (She has C-PTSD, and expects to use him to alert her when she's winding up emotionally, and to help her focus on calming down before she does/says something to get herself fired.) He's learned go to crate, sit, stay, (hand me your) paw, down - reliably indoors with only 4 cats to distract him; starting to work on extending them outdoors. Informally, he is very good about stopping on the dog blanket when we come in while I clean the snowballs from between his toes, and dry off his feathers. He recognizes my car lock chime from across the street - and lets out a few woofs as I walk to the steps. (Also when I leave). My daughter is working with a trainer - first on good citizenship stuff, then on service dog stuff.

Challenges so far:

Leash manners. His prior owner used a prong collar on him (all the time), and controlled him just by pulling on the collar - so he's used to forcefully (and uncomfortably) being brought to attention while walking - rather than keeping track of where his person is because that is what is expected of him. As a service dog, he'll need good leash manner - and will need to be attentive to my daughter. So far, he's too distracted by the wonderful smells of anything and everything to stop and pay attention to the silly human attached to his leash. (Manners aren't horrible - most of the time he walks on a slack 10' leash. He's just not checking in, or paying attention to make sure he's not too far ahead. The only problem - as a pet - is that he's 110 lbs and he loves to meet other people and other dogs, even if they don't want to be greeted. If I grab his harness, he will stand next to me, but if I don't have his harness he could easily overwhelm the person/dog. And as a service dog, he needs even better manners.)

Car anxiety. His prior owner rarely took him anywhere by car. We picked him up a state away from us, and drove him 3.5 hours away from the only family he has known, after a single meeting. (Wife apparently wasn't aware of how big he would get - and just wanted him gone now that he's full grown). I think it's that combination that has caused his extreme car anxiety. He's adapted well (to the extent we can tell) - emotionally connected to both my daughter and me, playing with toys, eating well, no acting out. But he will have to be able to travel by car without the effort it now takes to get him into the car.

I'd love any tips anyone has on teaching a nose-focused newfie to be attentive to his human (including creative things we can do when we're not training to satiate his glorious nose), and on lessening car anxiety.

[JMCKUSICK]

1. I don't have much to offer other than I wish you the very best and

Can only suggest that engagement with him in ways that resemble what he'll be required to do and fully encouraging his personality.

Best of luck

[Ms. Toad]

2. Thanks!

We're working in that direction. The biggest thing is that he'll need to be attentive to my daughter - and right now, when there are wonderful scents around, he is far less attentive than he will need to be. I think that will be a combination of satisfying his need to smell the world when he's not working, so he has less need to focus on that when he is.

[drray23]

3. I had a newfie for years

They are lovable giants. They are also very gentle but clumsy. I am surprised that you are considering training him to be a service dog at 2 years old. I thought that most service dogs were trained from early puppyhood. Newfies are not that easy to train because they are clumsy. Starting at 2 year old is going to be tricky. I wish you the best and hope it works.

[Ms. Toad]

4. You're right - most are trained younger.

My daughter was working with a trainer who approved the dog. Unfortunately, she didn't inform my daughter that she used prong collars (something my daughter is unwilling to use), and that it was non-negotiable, until after my daughter got the dog. So after she got the dog, she has had to switch trainers. The new trainer is decidedly unenthusiastic about the prior trainer - and was less enthusiastic about the dog until she worked with my daughter for about 15 minutes and was able to master "go to crate," "sit," and touch." in that time. I taught him paw yesterday, and he remembered it today.

I have some experience in obedience dog training (decades ago) - shelties. I've been surprised at how quickly he picks things up. Everyone with experience who has actually met him (vet, two trainers, groomer) think he at least has a good possibility of being the exception.

With single command things (go to crate, sit, down, stay, paw) that are easily completed the big challenge is that when he realizes you like something - he wants to do it all the time - even when he isn't being told to do it. I'm confident he'll get past that - the universal command he mostly knows is "think" - as in you've been told what to do and you're not doing it so search your memory banks you big doofus and do what I told you.

I sent him to his crate from across the room - he got halfway there and got distracted by a cat. I told him to think, and pointed to the crate, and he went there. While he was thinking, he did try a couple of other things to see if they would satisfy me (sit, and maybe down). When he didn't get rewarded, he went to his crate. Sat (when commanded from across the room), and Stayed (again commanded from across the room) while I went out of sight.

I'm not sure what the vet meant when she observed that he was aware of his size - but I suspect it's related to clumsiness.

If my daughter doesn't end up successfully training him as a service dog (with the help of her trainer), I'm probably going to end up on permanent dog-walking duty.

[canetoad]

5. Couple of things

Find out his weakness, then use it sparingly as a treat. ie my brother had a dog who melted at the smell of potato chips. Always make sure a good supply in pocket.

Sometimes old fashioned methods are reliable. I disagree with today's thinking that choke chains are cruel. It must be a good quality chain, not a cheapie that catches but one that is smooth and releases instantly. The onus is on the owner to learn a short, sharp movement - not tug or jerk, but almost like a riders hands on the reins. Pass the message down the lead and through the collar.

Enjoy, don't overthink. Read "King Solomon's Ring" by Conrad Lorenz.

[Ms. Toad]

6. Thanks!

His weakness (or one of them). He will work for micro-bites of cheese. Keeping them in my pocket in the summer might be a challenge. But, surprisingly, kibble works almost as well.

As for the prong collar - regardless of whether it is cruel, or works generally, it won't work if my daughter is unwilling to use it. So we need another method. My high school sweetheart (dog trainer and obedience judge) agrees with both of us - you that prong collars are effective and aren't inherently cruel - but also with me that the dog's owner has to be willing to use it without hesitation or it won't be an effective tool.

Fortunately - so far - a gentle touch seems to work with him. I've worked with him (I think) a dozen times. Just started today on outdoor obedience. I got him to sit and stay when there were dogs barking nearby, and kids making noise in the house we stopped in front of. He's not perfect yet - but he stayed to a count of 20 three times on our walk today. He's starting to get the hang of walking close to my side, rather than charging ahead at the end of whatever leash I give him.

The book looks interesting!

[canetoad]

7. Re the prong collar

I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. Just looked up prong collars. OMG never seen anything like that.

I've always used the smooth 'choke' chains. Tiny puppy sized ones for tiny puppies up to six months old. Never needed them past that. The chain obviously needs to be bigger for a newfie, but the combination of little twitches, vocal commands and praise followed up by a bit of cheese - sounds like an enticement to me.

Cheese can be purchased in industrial sized blocks, diced painstakingly by hand or a machine and frozen in manageable sized bags. Don't defrost' put bag of frozen cheeselings in pocket.

I first read Konrad Lorenz in high school. He is very much let animals be animals, but the subtext is watch, learn and communicate.

[Ms. Toad]

8. I used choke chains back when I was a pre-teen helping my mom train shelties.

My daughter isn't impressed with them either.

According to my high school sweetheart, prong collars are uncomfortable - but not painful. She tried it on her biceps before using it on her Aussies. But, yeah, they look like medieval torture devices. The prior owner for this dog used it as a normal collar all the time, and not just for as-needed-correction-during-training. When we met him, he was wearing it and pulling on his leash (so the prongs were digging into his neck) in the pet store when he was excited about meeting some of the other dogs and people.

From my reading, that's the wrong way to use them - it should be worn near their ears, and sparingly used - along with a separate collar/harness for normal restraint - during the training period to ensure reliable compliance. In theory it distributes pressure evenly around the neck and gets their attention quickly, then you release it.

And - it obviously wasn't terribly effective, since it didn't stop him from pulling against his lead even with steady pressure over a minute or so.

My daughter just found another suggestion - a squeeze bottle filled with yogurt or peanut butter. She tried the former already and says it is mess free and works. My slobber-covered hands think that's a good idea!