So.. who lied?

[Amimnoch]

So, she says he said it. He says he didn’t. has to be one or the other, it’s binary.. one lied.

Personally, I’d believe Senator Warren over him any day.

42 votes, 3 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Bernie lied.
	33 (79%)
	Warren lied.
	9 (21%)
	3 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Clash City Rocker]

1. It would have to be "Warren and CNN (or their sources) both lied"

Which is why I believe her. She didn’t even bring it up, CNN did. She just provided confirmation.

[blm]

2. Why do you want this continued?

[HerbChestnut]

32. Look at who they support in the primary.

There's your answer.

[dsc]

57. because it does matter if a candidate is an out and out liar

and one of them (I am virtually certain it is Sanders) is in this case.

[vapor2]

3. I have worked for both Warren & Sanders

but why bring this issue up now (from 2018). I say Warren is lying since she has dropped in the polls.

[democrattotheend]

28. I don't know that she lied, per se

I don't think she made it up out of thin air, but she may have distorted or took what he said out of context. Either way, leaking something from a private conversation seems desperate.

FWIW, I don't have a horse in the race this time. I like them both but am not backing a candidate at this time. Since my state doesn't vote until April I have plenty of time to decide.

[RazBerryBeret]

39. i tend to agree with you....

the timing makes me suspicious...either way, I'm disappointed.

[Bradshaw3]

4. Why are the threads on this "issue" all from Biden supporters?

At the least the ones I've seen. Maybe because they think this "feud" helps their candidate? They certainly seem to want to keep it going. I guess it's better than comparing the candidates.

[RandiFan1290]

9. Great question

I am not falling for it

[Bradshaw3]

11. Neither are others

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/15/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-feud-democrats

[Amimnoch]

13. I can only speak for myself as the OP of this thread.

Here’s my history of support for months now, and full reasoning behind it:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287392848

I’m ONLY a Biden supporter as long as he continues to poll strongest vs Trump in the battleground states, and each month I’ve been reinforcing that.

I would be PROUD AS HELL to swap to Senator Warren. Frankly all of our candidates but Bernie I’d be very happy to support and switch to. If I could wave a magic wand and “pick” the next potus it would be a very hard decision for me between Warren and Buttigieg. Even Bloomberg, if the swing state polls start showing him as the strongest candidate in those states to win vs Trump, he’ll be in my sig.

The second I see Senator Warren taking the lead in the critical swing states, i’m 100% in for her.

[FoxNewsSucks]

29. Some Biden supporters seem to be experts at

passive-aggressive bashing of liberals and liberal candidates.

[beastie boy]

43. As a Biden supporter, I would like to comment

First, the threads on this issue are not all from Biden supporters. I doubt you can back this statement with actual numbers.

Second, even though I personally think the whole issue is silly and wouldn't contribute to making it even sillier than it now appears, the likely reason Biden supporters may comment on this issue is to dispel a myth: that Warren and Sanders are somehow ideological twins and soulmates. This myth had been perpetuated by both Sanders' and Warren's supporters. I can probably count more instances where posters combined their poll numbers for no discernable reason and spoke of the Sanders/Warren ticket as a virtual certainty. The "issue" at hand illustrates the folly of trying to join Warren and Sanders at the hip better than any logical argument. Of course, the current narrative benefits Biden, but only because it dispells the false narrative of combined Sanders/Warren alliance.

Comparing candidates is just fine, as long as it is apple to apple. But not if it is apple to two apples.

[renate]

5. I really believe it was a misunderstanding

I don’t think Bernie would have said a woman can’t be President. He may have said a woman couldn’t win against Trump, because of how ruthlessly misogynistic Trump is. And Elizabeth could have genuinely believed she was hearing him say a woman couldn’t win a presidential election in the general sense.

I think they both believe they are telling the truth and have good reasons for thinking that. Misunderstandings like this are so easy to create, and now everyone is doubling down, and Putin and Trump are loving it.

[Amimnoch]

10. That was actually my first thought as well when it broke.

For months now, I’ve been doing a monthly “state of the battleground” where I gather up all of the vs trump polls from the critical swing states that WILL determine who wins the next GE. If Bernie had just come forward and said it outright, there’d be no issue, but instead he’s completely denied it, and called her, the staffers who stated it, and the CNN report all liars.

I do believe he did say something along those lines, and the attacks by his surrogates over this.. never Bernie imo... he’s feeling more and more like a mirror image of Trump, just very different on the issues.

[democrattotheend]

30. That's my thought as well

I didn't even think Bernie was accused of saying a woman couldn't be president. Even if that's how he worded it, I'm sure what he meant was that a woman couldn't win in 2020. And after 2016 he's not the only one who has that concern.

[Chemisse]

31. That's exactly what I have been thinking.

It's ridiculous that this is even an issue right now. Elizabeth never should have thrown this out there. If she thought it was such a big deal, she could have said it when Bernie declared his candidacy. But she didn't.

[Cha]

6. lol.. thanks!

[Hoyt]

7. A pitiful display by both of them.

[George II]

8. CNN has released the audio of that encounter last night. Based on how angry she was....

....and his denial during the debate, I'm 100% sure that Warren is telling the truth. That means only one thing.

[vsrazdem]

17. Where is the audio, CNN said they could not hear what was said. Please provide link to audio.

[George II]

19. It's on their website. It's now downloadable yet.

[vsrazdem]

21. I just saw it, You called me a liar. No you called me a liar. They both need to grow up.

[Blue_true]

33. It has been posted in two threads here on DU.

Warren confronted Sanders and she was pissed that he called her a liar an national tv, I don't think that a person who is lying acts like she did, I honestly have never seen that happen in my lifetime.

[vsrazdem]

34. Yes, I have seen it, she called him a liar and he called her a liar. Not a good look in public.

[blm]

38. That is not what was said on that tape.

You need to relisten.

[vsrazdem]

41. I did listen, they both called each other liars.

[lapucelle]

40. The transcript:

Warren: I think you called me a liar on national TV.

Sanders: What?

Warren: I think you called me a liar on national TV.

Sanders: Let's not do it right now.

Sanders: You want to have that discussion? We'll have that discussion.

Warren: Anytime

Sanders: You called me a liar. You told me...Alright, let's not do it now.

Steyer: I don't want to get in the middle of it - I just want to say hi Bernie.

Sanders: Yeah. Good. Okay.

[Tiggeroshii]

12. Nobody!

Obviously they remember the conversation differently. Is that really so friggin hard to understand?

[elleng]

16. THANKS, Tigger.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287424377

[Tiggeroshii]

25. I've only been married 5 years but can attest that's the case

[elleng]

26. It's human nature; marriage not necessary.

[Tiggeroshii]

27. Agreed

[Callado119]

14. Bernie lied..

He’s been getting a pass for telling lies for years both big and small. Most recently he just lied about the post debate confrontation being about the “weather” . Only his cultists believe him at this point.

[elleng]

15. 'Is it possible that Bernie and Liz remember the conversation differently

and that both honestly believe they are right? After 18 years of marriage I can confirm that such things do happen.

My theory;
Bernie said, or thought he was saying, that it would be more difficult for a woman to beat trump (because trump is the most effective demagogue in U.S history).
Warren heard, or thought she heard, Bernie say that a woman could not be elected president.
Perhaps Bernie's language was, inadvertently, unclear.
Perhaps Warren misunderstood the point Bernie was trying to make.

Bernie and Liz, and their supporters, should do the same thing me and my wife do in such circumstances;
GET OVER IT!!!
Remember all that you have in common and all that you want to accomplish together. Do not let petty squabbles blind you to what is really important.'

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287424377

[vsrazdem]

18. Well he raised 4 mil in 2 days with 25,000 new donors, so apparently they don't think it was him.

[Amimnoch]

20. Or like someone else's supporters, don't care. -nt

[vsrazdem]

35. So, are you saying I am a sexist because I believe him. Sorry, not gonna fly, 66YO Female here.

[aikoaiko]

22. Human communication and memory are very fallible. Especially with emotional topics

The presumption that one lied may not be true.

[elleng]

24. Yes.

Thanks.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287424377

[redqueen]

45. This is the most likely situation & the best way to interpret things in the absence of any evidence.

The media is orchestrating this utterly depressing remix of 2016 and it's really sad to see it is working so well.

[GemDigger]

23. This. You can hear it plain as day.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287425937

[pnwmom]

36. Or his memory was faulty.

I'm sure she remembered what he said. Hearing this from a friend is the kind of thing a serious woman would take seriously.

[SidDithers]

37. Bernie lied...nt

Sid

[marlakay]

42. Maybe he really does believe that

I have wondered myself if America will let a woman win. Yes Hillary got more votes but to win win has to be in states that are more conservative more religious.

There are more women who vote than men but a lot vote how the church or hubby tells them to.

I wonder if when they spoke he told her sadly how he felt wishing it wasn’t that way and forgot he said it.

This all needs to go away. I like both of them and I sincerely hope middle states are ready for a woman but who knows?

[Algernon Moncrieff]

44. The premise is that he said it in a private conversation, right?

So, he probably said it - or something along that line. But who knows? It was private; there are no witnesses; there is no transcript; and as much as we might like everyone on that stage, they.are.all.politicians.

[boomer_wv]

46. Bernie is lying.

Still, it's a pretty dirty move to hold onto that convo for a year and then leak it two weeks before voting on the eve of the debate. It's also a really devious move to act one way on the stage and then purposefully leave your mic pack on to catch yourself confronting him after the debate.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Warren fan but I gotta hand it to her on that one. That's a stone cold move.

[Zeus69]

47. Ironic

Bernie's defections who voted for Trump in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania handed the presidency to Trump.
So maybe he does know what he's talking about...

[fallout87]

48. The timing reeks.

I think her campaign released an untruth, and now we are all fighting about it, Just like tRump wants...

[Maru Kitteh]

49. Well, I don't believe for one SECOND that Warren lied.

So there it is.

[Amimnoch]

50. Me either. She has integrity. -nt

[Kali]

51. drumpf lies every fucking day, multiple times

who gives a shit about this? not me, that is for sure. either one of them is a brazillion times better than that orange motherfucker, or rather daughterfucker.

[Amimnoch]

52. I'm aiming higher than "better than Trump".

Senator Warren would make a great Alternative choice.

I believe Sanders did lie, and don't want him as our candidate or our next president. I want better..

Any of our candidates but BS 2020.

[Kali]

53. like I said,

they are ALL WAY better, not just a hair better. ANY of them. this kind of stupid post/poll serves no purpose other than starting petty flame wars (I know, redundant in the Primary Forum). the subject line caught me in a rather pissy mood so I had to reply. you can go back to creating jury duty for the rest of us now.

[NurseJackie]

54. Warren was telling the TRUTH.

There's only one other corollary with regard to that. And it's a very sad and pathetic one.

This is why the candidate I support will be honest, and will have integrity.

[Amimnoch]

55. She was telling the Truth AND BS was wrong.

A woman most definitely COULD win the presidency.

What's damaging our chances is his toxic campaign against the Democratic Party that he pretends to temporarily be a part of.

[cwydro]

56. Wow, DU is still beating this horse?

Smh.