Fed up judge goes scorched earth at Trump in court - Brian Tyler Cohen

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Legal Breakdown episode 512: ‪@GlennKirschner2‬ discusses Judge Boasberg moving forward toward contempt.

Transcript:

you're watching the legal breakdown
Glenn We have some major news on the
contempt front which is basically uh the
tool that judges are are able to use in
the event that the federal government
the Trump administration opts to defy
the courts which is what's happening
right now Can you explain what just
happened in Judge Boseberg's courtroom
yeah Brian Judge Boseberg just issued a
43page opinion finding probable cause
that the Trump administration is in
criminal contempt of court that they
violated willfully violated defied his
court orders to stop deporting
Venezuelan immigrants to El Salvador If
planes were in the air turn them around
If planes were about to take off keep
them on the damn ground He didn't say
damn That was my addition But this is a
big effing deal when a federal court
judge indeed the chief of federal
district court in Washington DC has
found probable cause to believe that
Donald Trump his administration his
officials are in criminal contempt of
court for defying court orders Can the
Trump administration appeal this is is
any contempt findings that come out of
Judge Boseberg's courtroom are they
final or will the Trump administration
try try to avail itself of appeal
options well let's first start with how
the rule of law and how criminal
procedure is supposed to apply The
answer to the question is no This is
simply a probable cause determination by
the judge that he has ample evidence
before him that the Trump administration
willfully violated court orders That is
not an appealable decision a finding of
probable cause Now if the judge goes
forward and holds a contempt trial and
holds administration officials in
criminal contempt that would be
appealable the way any other judicial
finding at the end of a case or a matter
would be appealable But this is not
something I don't believe that the Trump
administration can start bubbling up to
the Supreme Court Now might they try to
do it of course Might the appeals court
um give them some play i don't think the
DC Federal Circuit Court of Appeals
which is the appellet court that sits a
top judge Boseberg will take it up But
with the Supreme Court all bets are off
We've seen them do favors for Donald
Trump in the past favors that don't
really comport with the language of the
Constitution Still I think this is still
in a preliminary enough posture that
we're not going to see appeals filed Not
just yet
What do contempt charges mean in this
instance and is it enough to serve as a
proper deterrent for an administration
that seems hellbent on just violating
the law if it doesn't comport with their
political ideology i sure hope it is uh
enough of not just a deterrent but an
incentive to prod the Trump
administration to stop violating the
rule of law stop violating people's due
process rights and bring back the two to
300 Venezuelan immigrants that you
unconstitutionally sent to El Salvador
Because you know when you go through
this 43page opinion I have to admit I'm
still digesting it There is there
there's sort of a a cascading set of
options and actions Judge Boseberg lays
out but the common thread that runs
through it all is he's trying to
encourage and incentivize motivate the
Trump administration to comply with the
orders even if only belatedly and bring
these Venezuelans back so they can have
their due process rights honored And
some of those options that he lays out
in this order include he said "First we
may start with sworn declarations that I
will order be filled out by Trump
administration officials so I can figure
out precisely which administration
officials may have violated my order and
who I should seek to hold in contempt If
that doesn't have the desired effect
then we're going to set either
depositions fancy word for you know
putting somebody under oath not in court
but in a conference room and having them
answer questions on examination and
cross-examination under oath so they can
be used in later hearings And you know
what beyond depositions Judge Boseberg
said "I may conduct live hearings in my
courtroom and I may compel government
officials to come in and testify and be
examined and cross-examined And if that
doesn't have the desired effect of
forcing coercing compelling encouraging
the Trump administration to come into
compliance with my orders you know then
he said I can refer this case for
criminal prosecution to the Department
of Justice Don't laugh We all know that
Pam Bondi would instantly kill that
criminal referral from Judge Booseberg
but he's touching all of the possible
procedural bases And here's the part
that I really love and I love it because
it shows a respect and a determination
to abide by the rule of law He said "I
will appoint an outside prosecutor to
prosecute the contempt charges against
Trump administration officials if I have
to." But as I say Brian the thread
running through it is he's trying to
encourage incentivize the Trump
administration to come into compliance
get these folks back and give them their
damn due process rights Do you think
that there's some atmospheric precedent
that's being established by virtue of
Judge Boseberg barreling ahead and not
cowing to this administration and if the
if and recognizing that if the White
House isn't going to comply that he's
perfectly willing to avail himself of
for example contempt proceedings which
look I understand uh even though I don't
agree with but I understand how other
judges might feel um intimidated uh to
take on the Trump administration but do
you think that Judge Boseberg going
ahead and doing it is going to set some
precedent that that will embolden other
judges to know that it is okay to to
uphold the law when you're dealing with
a lawless president You know this sets
what I would call an atmospheric
precedent because this is our
constitutional construct at its finest
when co-equal branches of government are
stepping up are standing strong and are
willing to do every single thing that is
lawfully available to them to compel the
correct result by another co-equal
branch of government So this is exactly
what the checks and balances in our
constitution that have done a pretty
good job of keeping our democracy up and
running for the last 200 plus years look
like and it's exactly what they should
look like And finally Glenn what are
next steps here now in terms of these
contempt proceedings actually being
effectuated You know Brian perfect
question And with respect to next steps
I'm going to go right to the end of
Judge Booseberg's 43page ruling because
pertinently he has a section labeled
next steps Let me go right to his
ultimate conclusion He says for the
fourgoing reasons the court will find
probable cause that defendants actions
constitute contempt criminal contempt
The court will provide them the
opportunity to purge such contempt In
other words as we've been discussing
just comply with the dang law and the
dang constitutional requirement of
providing these people due process But
if they don't purge the contempt if they
opt not to do so the court will proceed
to identify the
contemporation officials who violated
the court's order and refer the matter
for prosecution a separate order so
stating will issue this day signed Judge
Booseberg All right Well look that means
that things are moving pretty quickly
and uh and in pretty unprecedented
fashion here So we will of course stay
on top of this For everybody who's
watching right now if you'd like to
follow along and if you'd like to
support our work more broadly please
make sure to subscribe The links to both
of our channels are right here on the
screen I'm Brian Teller Cohen and I'm
Glenn Kersner You're watching the Legal
Breakdown