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WSHazel

(627 posts)
31. That is an inaccurate characterization of pre-17th century England and Europe as a whole
Tue Apr 22, 2025, 01:43 PM
Apr 2025

With a few exceptions, most Europeans lived in some form of feudal society from about the 6th century through the 15th or 16th century. Even then, most agricultural workers, which was most workers, lived as virtual serfs through the 17th and into the 18th century. The idea that there were widespread communal lands that people worked collectively in harmony is a fantasy. Life was brutal and short for the vast majority of Europeans into the 19th century. The development of cities in the late Middle Ages did lead to greater freedom and opportunity, which is why so many people migrated to the cities in the Renaissance and after. Places like Venice and Florence, Amsterdam, Hamburg and Antwerp provided a much better quality of life for their residents.

With the American and then French Revolution, followed by the transition to greater democracy in Great Britain, there was an explosion of innovation and improvements in quality of life and lifespan, starting around 1800. Most economic historians that have opined on this topic believe that somewhere between 90% and 95% of all major innovations in human history have occurred since 1800.

Most conflicts over that period involving the developed world have resulted from the traditional feudal culture struggling to adjust to a technological society where the most effective organizations are collaborative and dynamic instead of autocratic and static. The American Civil War, the Revolutions of 1848, the Meiji Restoration, China for most of the 20th century, the Russian Revolution, throwing off the colonial yokes in South America, Asia and Africa, and the Arab Spring, all have this dynamic to some extent.

The most dangerous societies are ones where a traditionalist ruling class gets control of a rapidly advancing economy. Examples of this are Germany and Russia prior to World War I, and Japan prior to World War II. The ruling classes in those countries were not responsible for those countries' rapid development, and those ruling classes misunderstood the source of their power and misused that power badly as a result.

I am of Western European descent, and I live with freedoms and a quality of life that my ancestors could not dream of 300 years ago. If Slavery is America's original sin, Feudalism is the West's original sin. It was a brutal social construct that resulted in centuries of 90% of all people living in misery and virtual slavery. The idea that there was some primitive, communal utopia under Feudalism is absurd.

Recommendations

3 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Such nasty old social Darwinists Gum Logger Apr 2025 #1
There are ways of... 2naSalit Apr 2025 #2
They clearly want to go medieval, so we should oblige. Maru Kitteh Apr 2025 #8
that's why musk needs all those kids... ret5hd Apr 2025 #3
Billionaires are not all on one team WSHazel Apr 2025 #4
Taxes are the price of civilization multigraincracker Apr 2025 #6
hey . a friend of mine would say that a lot. AllaN01Bear Apr 2025 #15
I agree WSHazel Apr 2025 #28
It was not that logical. We just had a stupid president born with a silver MadameButterfly Apr 2025 #40
Someone had to fund the deficits WSHazel Apr 2025 #41
The billionaires funded the propaganda that got all those votes, though. yardwork Apr 2025 #10
Trump, and Bannon, Miller and others, sold their voters retribution against the "elite" WSHazel Apr 2025 #30
I agree: If everyone knew the truth we wouldn't be in this situation MadameButterfly Apr 2025 #42
Nope Cirsium Apr 2025 #25
That is an inaccurate characterization of pre-17th century England and Europe as a whole WSHazel Apr 2025 #31
Whatever Cirsium Apr 2025 #32
I don't know where to start WSHazel Apr 2025 #34
Okey dokey Cirsium Apr 2025 #36
Interesting discussion between the two of you thucythucy Apr 2025 #39
Good post WSHazel Apr 2025 #43
Very good Cirsium Apr 2025 #44
No they won't, because they need us. Basso8vb Apr 2025 #5
Exactly...to say nothing of the fact they will actually have to pay a lot of their wealth to the government of the PortTack Apr 2025 #19
"they are in a club, and we're not invited." mdbl Apr 2025 #7
here you go bdamomma Apr 2025 #21
Them Iamscrewed Apr 2025 #9
Praxisnation[.]com ultralite001 Apr 2025 #11
'Rollerball' movie. nt wiggs Apr 2025 #12
they are in a club, and we're not invited patphil Apr 2025 #13
oops bdamomma Apr 2025 #22
He was a wise man. patphil Apr 2025 #29
Gone too soon bdamomma Apr 2025 #33
The oligarchy is international. hay rick Apr 2025 #14
The New Feudalism Auggie Apr 2025 #16
I have hoped they'll build Galt's Gulch somewhere inhospitable Warpy Apr 2025 #17
The billionaires have private enclaves in New Zealand. rubbersole Apr 2025 #18
Too damn much money does that to a person. I can think of no deeper Hell than only having the super rich Beowulf42 Apr 2025 #20
Tax them into millionaire status. Bluethroughu Apr 2025 #23
This is from a Guardian opinion a few days ago titled The Rise of End Times Fascism Ponietz Apr 2025 #24
The billionaires have decided I don't really need my pittance of a social security check Walleye Apr 2025 #26
Maybe instead of us turning out like gab13by13 Apr 2025 #27
Extraordinary book by Douglas Rushkoff -- Survival of the Richest: Escape Fantasies of the Tech Billionaires Hekate Apr 2025 #35
Yep. Selfish dumbasses. flying rabbit Apr 2025 #37
it's "couldn't care less" Skittles Apr 2025 #38
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