General Discussion

yardwork

(67,746 posts)

15. I think we're talking past one another.

Fri Aug 15, 2025, 03:44 PM

Aug 15

If I now understand correctly, you agree with DSA that the U.S. should withdraw from NATO. You aren't saying we should allow Russia to invade and take over another country.

I don't think DSA's proposed solution would work. Sometimes there is no diplomatic solution. Now, are there other kinds of solutions short of war? Maybe, but so far Russia hasn't been swayed by economic sanctions and Trump lifted them all anyway.

I think the opening paragraph in DSA's statement is kind of silly. The effect would be to hand Ukraine to Russia. Who is going to enforce this call for "immediate diplomacy and deescalation?" I'm not at all persuaded that NATO caused this. Putin caused this because he wants Ukraine. He's said so for years.

The Democratic Socialists of America condemns Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and demands immediate diplomacy and de-escalation to resolve this crisis. We stand in solidarity with the working classes of Ukraine and Russia who will undoubtedly bear the brunt of this war, and with antiwar protestors in both countries and around the world who are calling for a diplomatic resolution.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

3 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

rollin74 JustAnotherGen RandomNumbers

170 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Just a reminder to those who may not be aware, the Democratic Socialists of America, (DSA), blamed the [View all] lostincalifornia Aug 15 OP

link? Shellback Squid Aug 15 #1

It isn't hidden. Just google it. This isn't new. lostincalifornia Aug 15 #2

"There are a lot of naive people in the world." soldierant Aug 15 #39

just got here.. I agree w this...was thinking of saying something similar. You covered it. 👍 electric_blue68 Aug 15 #66

Your excerpt is taken out of context al bupp Sunday #152

Thanks for the full statement by DSA.It makes a great difference. nt delisen Sunday #156

move on. AltairIV Aug 15 #3

No. Cha Aug 15 #11

Tell this to the people of New York City and Minneapolis question everything Aug 15 #60

He can win but...... AltairIV Aug 15 #64

Ummm... "the democrat party" ??? electric_blue68 Aug 15 #67

There is no such thing as the "democrat party" -- Republicans made that name up. SunSeeker Aug 16 #122

Well, as a NYC'r...NOT an Adam's, or Cuomo fan. So Zohran, it is. and* electric_blue68 Aug 15 #68

I think Zohran won because of his voter engagement, not just his DSA affiliation. Just my two cents! LeftInTX Sunday #163

I'm sure that helped. electric_blue68 Sunday #164

They seem to be here mcar Aug 15 #70

I agree with them n/t leftstreet Aug 15 #4

You'd just let Russia invade and take over Ukraine? yardwork Aug 15 #5

There are NATO troops in Ukraine? leftstreet Aug 15 #8

I think we're talking past one another. yardwork Aug 15 #15

I think so leftstreet Aug 15 #29

Wow. There's so many brown people in Ukraine being oppressed by NATO. Who knew? Hekate Aug 15 #17

There are a fair number of "brown" people being oppressed by Russia. yardwork Aug 15 #20

Ah, you could be right electric_blue68 Aug 15 #69

But my question was about the people NATO is accused of oppressing in Ukraine. I know about Russian conscripting from... Hekate Aug 15 #82

I don't know of anybody NATO is oppressing. yardwork Aug 15 #86

I think you and I are on the same page. I've been trying to tease out (so to speak) an admission... Hekate Aug 15 #89

What? About letting Putin rape and pillage Ukraine in the name of "anti-imperialism"? Crunchy Frog Aug 15 #36

Disband NATO and pull out of Ukraine are very bad ideas uponit7771 Aug 16 #129

I said nothing about Ukraine leftstreet Aug 16 #131

What country has NATO taken over with its "imperialism"? SunSeeker Aug 16 #134

They've screwed up a couple of times but I don't notice pattern of taking over people's property like a proper imperial uponit7771 Aug 16 #137

Hugh! H2O Man Aug 15 #6

lol, and Robb is a dingbat Shellback Squid Aug 15 #7

Well played! H2O Man Aug 15 #21

SERIESLY!! Call your congresscritter RIGHT FUCKING NOW!! madinmaryland Aug 15 #16

Where is Walt Star? H2O Man Aug 15 #22

miss his thoughtful posts, so many early DUer's are now gone Shellback Squid Aug 15 #35

Good question. That was an epic flame out. Skinner: "Ok". madinmaryland Aug 15 #50

Writing under an assumed name? Hekate Aug 15 #85

Now don't cast asparagus on our friends the socialists. yardwork Aug 15 #18

Ha! H2O Man Aug 15 #23

Or we're all screwn!!!! yardwork Aug 15 #24

The sky is falling! H2O Man Aug 15 #25

LOL! MuseRider Aug 15 #57

I remember the DSA response to the invasion of Ukraine LetMyPeopleVote Aug 15 #9

DSA also wants to dissolve the family Charmin One Aug 15 #10

What family? obamanut2012 Aug 15 #12

All familes eom Charmin One Aug 15 #13

How? obamanut2012 Tuesday #170

Aa DSA rondtable recommended it Charmin One Aug 15 #14

I'm a prostitute? JustAnotherGen Aug 15 #45

I like the UU's. electric_blue68 Aug 15 #79

We believe in potluck suppers JustAnotherGen Aug 15 #87

That's a good enough reason! electric_blue68 Aug 15 #88

In a same sex marriage, which one is supposed to be the prostitute? Crunchy Frog Aug 15 #94

Mind boggling JustAnotherGen Aug 16 #106

Ohhh, brother 🙄 electric_blue68 Aug 15 #71

It makes me question JustAnotherGen Aug 16 #114

I thought this was hyperbole but it's not. yardwork Aug 15 #19

Of course they are authoritarian. EllieBC Aug 15 #27

These people need to step out of the academia bubble. Ace Rothstein Sunday #166

The question of the family is not new OutNow Aug 15 #26

Good Lord. yardwork Aug 15 #28

What irritates me about this...well, there is a lot, but the main one... Behind the Aegis Aug 15 #31

Very good point. yardwork Aug 15 #33

While I am being "quippy" - I remember all of this. I Do keep an eye out on extremists. electric_blue68 Aug 15 #75

Imagine being so hateful EllieBC Aug 15 #32

Wow, that's insane. Family units of one sort or another exist accross all primate species, Crunchy Frog Aug 15 #41

And that is the truth Hekate Aug 15 #91

Yeah JustAnotherGen Aug 15 #46

Oh, "joy". 🙄 electric_blue68 Aug 15 #74

Last week at their convention, DSA tabled a motion to censure AOC. lapucelle Aug 15 #30

Mahalo for that on DSA "Tabling a Resolution to Cha Aug 15 #40

AOC JustAnotherGen Aug 15 #44

According to the DSA censure resolution, one of AOC's "sins" was endorsing Kamala Harris. lapucelle Aug 16 #107

Jesus Christ JustAnotherGen Aug 16 #109

Interesting... 80,000? Oopsie Daisy Aug 16 #115

WFP JustAnotherGen Aug 16 #118

Good gad mcar Aug 16 #124

Insanity! SunSeeker Aug 16 #133

I did not know about this. sheshe2 Aug 15 #53

Holy shit Hekate Aug 15 #92

Claims to counterculture notwithstanding, lapucelle Aug 16 #105

I'm not sure I agree with them on every point, snot Aug 15 #34

I'm not so sure mountain grammy Aug 15 #38

That sounds an awfully lot like endorsing the idea that some people have the right to own other people. Crunchy Frog Aug 15 #43

Ukraine is vital interest JustAnotherGen Aug 15 #47

Well... electric_blue68 Aug 15 #76

It's almost as if they're kooks. BannonsLiver Aug 15 #37

I agree LetMyPeopleVote Aug 16 #104

They flat out are JustAnotherGen Aug 16 #119

This is why I'm a Democratic Party Member JustAnotherGen Aug 15 #42

Of course they did! Their disloyalty and treachery to our country and to our party must never be forgotten. Oopsie Daisy Aug 15 #48

For the record mises.org is a right wing Nanjeanne Aug 15 #49

Mine is the Dekalb GA news JustAnotherGen Aug 15 #72

Like I said Im not debating NATO or DSA. Just pointing out that people need to consider sources and Nanjeanne Aug 15 #93

Thank you for the response JustAnotherGen Aug 16 #108

Left center bias and medium credibility. Minimal loaded wording. I'll take it. Love watching Al Jazeera America. Lots Nanjeanne Aug 16 #110

State Owned Propaganda JustAnotherGen Aug 16 #111

Okey dokey. Nanjeanne Aug 16 #117

Thank you for this very informative post, Nanjeanne Hekate Aug 15 #90

It looks like another attempt to prevent Mamdani from winning AZProgressive Aug 15 #51

This OP has nothing to do with Mamdani. And if you read the OP, that was stated explicitedly lostincalifornia Aug 15 #52

He's a Democratic Socialist running for mayor of NYC AZProgressive Aug 15 #54

So what. trump, putin, and the DSA are all on the same page that the U.S. should get out of NATO. Mamdani is lostincalifornia Aug 15 #55

I agree NATO is not part of his job duties AZProgressive Aug 15 #56

Neither is Israel, but he says he will arrest Netanyahu for war crimes MichMan Aug 15 #63

I support that AZProgressive Aug 15 #80

Because NYC has a very large number of Jewish residents MichMan Aug 15 #84

I'm.shocked JustAnotherGen Aug 15 #78

I thought he was a Democratic Party Member JustAnotherGen Aug 15 #73

Yep. The Purity Police are out and about. thought crime Aug 15 #65

Being a Democratic Party member JustAnotherGen Aug 15 #77

Yes. Loyalty is important. Oopsie Daisy Aug 16 #103

DUers can be Democratic Party Members and can also be DSA Members thought crime Aug 16 #132

That doesn't make sense JustAnotherGen Aug 16 #139

DSA is a PAC, not a party. LeftInTX Sunday #144

How many people JustAnotherGen Sunday #146

I have absolutely no idea! LeftInTX Sunday #158

This is what appealed to me when i joined JustAnotherGen Aug 16 #140

Zohran Mamdani is a member of the Democratic Party. He is also a member of DSA. thought crime Sunday #142

I can't JustAnotherGen Sunday #147

It's not a PAC or a Party. thought crime Sunday #154

Google AI Mosby Sunday #160

Yeah OK - good point. thought crime Sunday #165

So basically they are UU's JustAnotherGen Sunday #167

Indeed. The Purity Police at the DSA are proposing to censure a Democratic Congresswoman lapucelle Aug 16 #120

The DSA view on Ukraine is about as important as the disagreement between Slavoj Zizek and Yanis Varoufakis thought crime Aug 16 #135

No it absolutely did not, and that is absolutely not the reason Crunchy Frog Aug 15 #95

I didn't say that was the reason AZProgressive Aug 16 #96

You are remembering incorrectly because there never was any such agreement. Crunchy Frog Aug 16 #97

This is what I was remembering AZProgressive Aug 16 #98

Yes, it was in negotiations with the Soviet Union and Soviet officials. Crunchy Frog Aug 16 #99

Interestingly enough, the Ukraine was a founding member of the UN DFW Sunday #148

This is an interesting video on the subject. Crunchy Frog Aug 16 #100

Sadly, I'm not JustAnotherGen Aug 16 #113

No Thanks OC375 Aug 15 #58

Er.... you don't like the Nordic Countries system, then? electric_blue68 Aug 15 #81

They have Social Democracy JustAnotherGen Aug 16 #121

Oh, oops! I got the Names of the Type of Gov't Mixed Up! TY, correction. electric_blue68 Aug 16 #127

I'm a Black America Gen Xer - my apologies JustAnotherGen Sunday #149

Ah, Gen X. 👍 electric_blue68 Sunday #150

There needs to be set asides for Black Americans first JustAnotherGen Sunday #151

The Roberts Court decided that all the voter supression problems had been "fixed", lapucelle Sunday #155

Ah, got it. I could support that... electric_blue68 Sunday #159

This old white lady agrees with you JAG mcar Sunday #153

Had not considered this group in my recent thinking. cachukis Aug 15 #59

One can be a democratic socialist without being a DSA Bobstandard Aug 15 #61

That is absolutely true. lostincalifornia Aug 15 #62

Exactly +1 Emile Aug 15 #83

If being wrong about a major policy or issue discredits a political party or group SSJVegeta Aug 16 #101

Oh please. The Southern Democrats of Jim Crow are now the Republican Party. SunSeeker Aug 16 #125

So youre saying there's a difference between the individual politicians and their party platforms/ policies and agendas? SSJVegeta Aug 16 #128

Unlike DSA, the Democratic Party is a big tent. Some Democrats may fail DSA's purity test. SunSeeker Aug 16 #130

Is that why there are a few dozen or so DSA sponsored politicians (who dont endorse the policy presented in the OP) SSJVegeta Aug 16 #136

Who are you talking about? SunSeeker Sunday #143

The point I made is that nothing you say about DSA (outside of their specific platform) is representative of reality SSJVegeta Sunday #145

So no matter what anyone says about DSA, it's a lie? Come on. SunSeeker Sunday #168

Who knew the Mayor of NY directed US iemanja Aug 16 #102

I just saw JustAnotherGen Aug 16 #116

You think it doesn't matter if he agrees with DSA that NATO should be dissolved and its NYC headquarters shuttered? SunSeeker Aug 16 #123

Goodness, the mumbo jumbo is off the charts. Nixie Aug 16 #112

A shame they can't evolve into a positive force in 21st century America. betsuni Aug 16 #126

OPs Source Links are from 2022 thought crime Aug 16 #138

I don't have to agree with all their positions.. mvd Aug 16 #141

In my state we no longer register by party. Ping Tung Sunday #157

Back during the Cold War these type of people were called "Tankies" Jose Garcia Sunday #161

LOL. Thanks for that info. I never knew why they were called Tankies! SunSeeker Sunday #169

An even bigger reminder: Avoid Party for Socialism and Liberation! They're a political party, which is trying LeftInTX Sunday #162