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LetMyPeopleVote

(169,368 posts)
49. Legal Issues Raised by a Lethal U.S. Military Attack in the Caribbean
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 08:06 PM
Wednesday

Here is a good discussion of the legal issues in the use of lethal military force when we are NOT at war.

Legal Issues Raised by a Lethal U.S. Military Attack in the Caribbean
->Just Security | More info from EcoSearch

Climate, Ecology, War and More by Dr. Glen Barry (@bigearthdata.bsky.social) 2025-09-03T22:56:03.506423+00:00

https://www.justsecurity.org/119982/legal-issues-military-attack-carribean/

On Sept. 2nd, the Trump administration announced what it described as a “lethal strike” against an alleged drug smuggling vessel in the Caribbean. In a post on social media accompanied with a video of the strike, President Donald Trump stated that the attack was “against positively identified Tren de Aragua Narcoterrorists.” Trump also noted that Tren de Aragua had previously been designated as a foreign terrorist organization (FTO). The social media post also asserted that the strike had occurred in international waters and killed “11 terrorists.”

Although the facts are still emerging, the Trump administration’s extraordinary lethal attack on this purported smuggling vessel – and its vow that the strike was a start of a campaign – raise a number of significant potential legal issues. And even apart from these legal concerns, the strike constitutes a deeply troubling gratuitous use of the military that resulted in the unnecessary killing of 11 individuals. ......

A U.S. president may direct the use of military force pursuant to either (1) a congressional authorization for the use of force/declaration of war or (2) inherent authority under Article II of the Constitution, typically as commander in chief of the U.S. military. The scope of the president’s authority to direct the use of force under Article II in the absence of congressional authorization is contested. Although there is broad agreement that the president may use force to repel “sudden attack,” the U.S. executive branch has taken a much more expansive view of the president’s unilateral war powers.

Here the Trump administration will almost certainly rely solely on Article II of the Constitution as the source of authority for the attack on this vessel. Despite labelling the targets “narcoterrorists,” there is no plausible argument under which the principle legal authority for the U.S. so-called “war on terror”—the 2001 Authorization for the Use of Military Force—authorizes military action against the Venezuelan criminal entity Tren de Aragua.

Under the executive branch’s two-prong test for when a president may use force without congressional authorization, the contemplated operation must advance an important “national interest” and must not amount to “war in the constitutional sense,” which the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) has recognized as an outer limit on the president’s unilateral warmaking authority. That said, OLC precedent marks out remarkably wide latitude, with the first prong in particular having been critiqued as being unconstraining, and it is not clear whether it would have limited the president in this instance even assuming OLC advice was sought before the strike took place.

Further, though Trump and others in his administration have emphasized the prior designation of Tren de Aragua as an FTO, such designation does not by itself convey authority to use force. Nonetheless, such FTO designations are widely and mistakenly perceived as authorizing such action within the executive branch. Thus, designation of Tren de Aragua and a number of other Latin American criminal entities as FTOs in February foreshadowed this week’s attack in the Caribbean, despite providing no actual legal authority for it.

This is a well done legal article that also goes into the use of force if we were at war



I think that trump appears to have committed a crime or war crime in this attack.

Recommendations

3 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Bass boats Greg_In_SF Wednesday #1
The only sure way to tell what it was Another Jackalope Wednesday #3
Exactly... no more boat, no way to prove or disprove anything. Therefore, slightlv Wednesday #15
Countdown OrangeJoe Wednesday #23
He wants to get a drug boat so bad he doesn't want to risk MadameButterfly Wednesday #37
That's very unsettling. ecstatic Thursday #58
Cmon now, they were going after some of the largest sea bass ever rumored to exist in that big bad bass boat. nt taxi Wednesday #9
A pleasure boat can have 4 engines deepblue Wednesday #22
They can Greg_In_SF Wednesday #26
My neighbor had a boat with 3 Chrysler V8's in it. Just for fishing on Lake Michigan. OverBurn Wednesday #38
Half the boats in Miami do pfitz59 Wednesday #42
So you are saying it is ok to kill folks usedtobedemgurl Wednesday #55
Me? You talking to me? deepblue Thursday #62
Do the DOD's brownshirts understand that "just following orders" is not a defense RockRaven Wednesday #2
Hitler had the Brownshirts murdered Kaleva Wednesday #7
Only The Leaders ProfessorGAC Wednesday #24
The loyalty of the Brownshirts wasn't in question Kaleva Thursday #61
Agreed ProfessorGAC Thursday #63
Verbal orders, I'm sure Fichefinder Wednesday #4
So we can kill a literal 'Boat load' of people just on a Suspision? mackdaddy Wednesday #5
Unfortunately WmChris Wednesday #16
Intercepting (easy) & interrogating is so much less CONVENIENT than extra-judicially killing 11 people. . . . /s . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Wednesday #6
The quaint idea of due process sammythecat Wednesday #28
OK, they just picked a boat to destroy and claimed it was cartel. ananda Wednesday #8
Reminds me of HWBush popsdenver Wednesday #14
Good comparison. Bush 2 invaded Iraq and took advantage of 9/11. ananda Wednesday #19
Bush 2 invaded Iraq because he thought that Sadamn had disrespected his daddy after the first Iraq war of Bush 1 LiberalArkie Wednesday #31
I thought popsdenver Wednesday #51
Reagan knocked over Grenada markodochartaigh Wednesday #30
And to wag the dog, to distract from the Beirut embassy bombing. Hassler Wednesday #36
Begging for more 9/11s. multigraincracker Wednesday #10
So many questions. maxsolomon Wednesday #11
That's not normal protocol for interdiction activities. haele Wednesday #57
Meanwhile Putin, Modi, Xi and Kim were yucking bronxiteforever Wednesday #12
F.cking Supreme Court! Buddyzbuddy Wednesday #13
I dont care if they were carrying 500 pounds of cocaine. Eko Wednesday #17
The whole thing is a disgrace. yardwork Wednesday #21
Proving yet again that the "Orange menace", in the words of Eddie Janko,... the nelm Wednesday #34
His dealer was late so... Dave Bowman Wednesday #18
That excuse didn't work at Nuremberg it's not going to work now. Ray Bruns Wednesday #20
Cost of doing business to the cartel lonely bird Wednesday #25
The orange monster is working day & night to make America an international pariah Hekate Wednesday #27
Extra judicial killing for an alleged offense that could not be the subject of capital punishment is murder. TomSlick Wednesday #29
I am expecting this will lead to us reading about the U.S. blowing up boats full of refugees. Sorry to express such ShazamIam Wednesday #32
Typical Of Cantaloupe Caligula... GB_RN Wednesday #33
Murdering 11 Venezuelans without knowing 100% Farmer-Rick Wednesday #35
Blow it up, film it, and use that clip of a evidence-less mass murder for political propaganda Justice matters. Wednesday #47
The Reform party in the UK would love to do something like this. malthaussen Wednesday #39
It was around 1,200 miles over the open sea from the markodochartaigh Wednesday #40
i guess its ok now for venezula to attack a US fishing boat in international waters claiming its a drug boat moonshinegnomie Wednesday #41
It was murder! Emile Wednesday #43
More than likely T tried to shake them down Hope22 Wednesday #44
This is basically piracy EndlessMaze Wednesday #45
I think this story... Mike Nelson Wednesday #46
Maybe Gulf of Tonkin important ... Turnip is waving his big stick below the Equator, ready to start another eppur_se_muova Wednesday #48
Legal Issues Raised by a Lethal U.S. Military Attack in the Caribbean LetMyPeopleVote Wednesday #49
Unfortunately, for the Sailors that pushed the button, "we were just following orders" is a weak defense maxrandb Wednesday #50
I believe Trump would use nuclear missiles if he thought he could personally benefited from it. Doodley Wednesday #52
It scares me that the Navy followed this order. nt Ilsa Wednesday #53
He has murder in his heart. GoodRaisin Wednesday #54
Were there children in the boat? Bernardo de La Paz Wednesday #56
Murder/Terrorism moondust Thursday #59
Of course Nobody paying attention would Cha Thursday #60
MaddowBlog-Team Trump faces tough questions following strike on boat in international waters LetMyPeopleVote Thursday #64
Will this be his new method of handling scary immigrants or demonstrators? Ping Tung Thursday #65
Impeach him! Joinfortmill Thursday #66
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