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In reply to the discussion: "We blew it up...on Trump's orders." [View all]LetMyPeopleVote
(169,368 posts)49. Legal Issues Raised by a Lethal U.S. Military Attack in the Caribbean
Here is a good discussion of the legal issues in the use of lethal military force when we are NOT at war.
Legal Issues Raised by a Lethal U.S. Military Attack in the Caribbean
— Climate, Ecology, War and More by Dr. Glen Barry (@bigearthdata.bsky.social) 2025-09-03T22:56:03.506423+00:00
->Just Security | More info from EcoSearch
https://www.justsecurity.org/119982/legal-issues-military-attack-carribean/
On Sept. 2nd, the Trump administration announced what it described as a lethal strike against an alleged drug smuggling vessel in the Caribbean. In a post on social media accompanied with a video of the strike, President Donald Trump stated that the attack was against positively identified Tren de Aragua Narcoterrorists. Trump also noted that Tren de Aragua had previously been designated as a foreign terrorist organization (FTO). The social media post also asserted that the strike had occurred in international waters and killed 11 terrorists.
Although the facts are still emerging, the Trump administrations extraordinary lethal attack on this purported smuggling vessel and its vow that the strike was a start of a campaign raise a number of significant potential legal issues. And even apart from these legal concerns, the strike constitutes a deeply troubling gratuitous use of the military that resulted in the unnecessary killing of 11 individuals. ......
A U.S. president may direct the use of military force pursuant to either (1) a congressional authorization for the use of force/declaration of war or (2) inherent authority under Article II of the Constitution, typically as commander in chief of the U.S. military. The scope of the presidents authority to direct the use of force under Article II in the absence of congressional authorization is contested. Although there is broad agreement that the president may use force to repel sudden attack, the U.S. executive branch has taken a much more expansive view of the presidents unilateral war powers.
Here the Trump administration will almost certainly rely solely on Article II of the Constitution as the source of authority for the attack on this vessel. Despite labelling the targets narcoterrorists, there is no plausible argument under which the principle legal authority for the U.S. so-called war on terrorthe 2001 Authorization for the Use of Military Forceauthorizes military action against the Venezuelan criminal entity Tren de Aragua.
Under the executive branchs two-prong test for when a president may use force without congressional authorization, the contemplated operation must advance an important national interest and must not amount to war in the constitutional sense, which the Department of Justices Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) has recognized as an outer limit on the presidents unilateral warmaking authority. That said, OLC precedent marks out remarkably wide latitude, with the first prong in particular having been critiqued as being unconstraining, and it is not clear whether it would have limited the president in this instance even assuming OLC advice was sought before the strike took place.
Further, though Trump and others in his administration have emphasized the prior designation of Tren de Aragua as an FTO, such designation does not by itself convey authority to use force. Nonetheless, such FTO designations are widely and mistakenly perceived as authorizing such action within the executive branch. Thus, designation of Tren de Aragua and a number of other Latin American criminal entities as FTOs in February foreshadowed this weeks attack in the Caribbean, despite providing no actual legal authority for it.
Although the facts are still emerging, the Trump administrations extraordinary lethal attack on this purported smuggling vessel and its vow that the strike was a start of a campaign raise a number of significant potential legal issues. And even apart from these legal concerns, the strike constitutes a deeply troubling gratuitous use of the military that resulted in the unnecessary killing of 11 individuals. ......
A U.S. president may direct the use of military force pursuant to either (1) a congressional authorization for the use of force/declaration of war or (2) inherent authority under Article II of the Constitution, typically as commander in chief of the U.S. military. The scope of the presidents authority to direct the use of force under Article II in the absence of congressional authorization is contested. Although there is broad agreement that the president may use force to repel sudden attack, the U.S. executive branch has taken a much more expansive view of the presidents unilateral war powers.
Here the Trump administration will almost certainly rely solely on Article II of the Constitution as the source of authority for the attack on this vessel. Despite labelling the targets narcoterrorists, there is no plausible argument under which the principle legal authority for the U.S. so-called war on terrorthe 2001 Authorization for the Use of Military Forceauthorizes military action against the Venezuelan criminal entity Tren de Aragua.
Under the executive branchs two-prong test for when a president may use force without congressional authorization, the contemplated operation must advance an important national interest and must not amount to war in the constitutional sense, which the Department of Justices Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) has recognized as an outer limit on the presidents unilateral warmaking authority. That said, OLC precedent marks out remarkably wide latitude, with the first prong in particular having been critiqued as being unconstraining, and it is not clear whether it would have limited the president in this instance even assuming OLC advice was sought before the strike took place.
Further, though Trump and others in his administration have emphasized the prior designation of Tren de Aragua as an FTO, such designation does not by itself convey authority to use force. Nonetheless, such FTO designations are widely and mistakenly perceived as authorizing such action within the executive branch. Thus, designation of Tren de Aragua and a number of other Latin American criminal entities as FTOs in February foreshadowed this weeks attack in the Caribbean, despite providing no actual legal authority for it.
This is a well done legal article that also goes into the use of force if we were at war
Link to tweet

I think that trump appears to have committed a crime or war crime in this attack.
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Cmon now, they were going after some of the largest sea bass ever rumored to exist in that big bad bass boat. nt
taxi
Wednesday
#9
My neighbor had a boat with 3 Chrysler V8's in it. Just for fishing on Lake Michigan.
OverBurn
Wednesday
#38
Do the DOD's brownshirts understand that "just following orders" is not a defense
RockRaven
Wednesday
#2
Intercepting (easy) & interrogating is so much less CONVENIENT than extra-judicially killing 11 people. . . . /s . . nt
Bernardo de La Paz
Wednesday
#6
Bush 2 invaded Iraq because he thought that Sadamn had disrespected his daddy after the first Iraq war of Bush 1
LiberalArkie
Wednesday
#31
The orange monster is working day & night to make America an international pariah
Hekate
Wednesday
#27
Extra judicial killing for an alleged offense that could not be the subject of capital punishment is murder.
TomSlick
Wednesday
#29
I am expecting this will lead to us reading about the U.S. blowing up boats full of refugees. Sorry to express such
ShazamIam
Wednesday
#32
Blow it up, film it, and use that clip of a evidence-less mass murder for political propaganda
Justice matters.
Wednesday
#47
i guess its ok now for venezula to attack a US fishing boat in international waters claiming its a drug boat
moonshinegnomie
Wednesday
#41
Maybe Gulf of Tonkin important ... Turnip is waving his big stick below the Equator, ready to start another
eppur_se_muova
Wednesday
#48
Unfortunately, for the Sailors that pushed the button, "we were just following orders" is a weak defense
maxrandb
Wednesday
#50
I believe Trump would use nuclear missiles if he thought he could personally benefited from it.
Doodley
Wednesday
#52
MaddowBlog-Team Trump faces tough questions following strike on boat in international waters
LetMyPeopleVote
Thursday
#64