Welcome to DU!
    The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
    Join the community:
    Create a free account
    Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
    Become a Star Member
    Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
    All Forums
        Issue Forums
        Culture Forums
        Alliance Forums
        Region Forums
        Support Forums
        Help & Search
    
Creative Speculation
In reply to the discussion: Bugliosi: 53 Reasons It Was Lee Harvey Oswald [View all]William Seger
(11,972 posts)240. Oh, sorry
        I mistakenly thought you were looking for an answer when you asked, "Did Lee Harvey Oswald have a clift chin or a flat-bottomed chin?"  Silly me.
But perhaps you were really interested in having this one answered?
> 3) If the photos were not manipulated in a dark room, is there a credible reason as to why the angles of the shadows changed between the two photos? 
No, there isn't, nor is there any reason to think that's actually the case (unless you are easily deceived by random red arrows). Here is how  a real photo-analyst investigated the claim for the HSCA:
The consistency of the shadows was also evaluated by application of the vanishing point principle. The concept of "vanishing point" perspective is widely known with respect. To artists and applies to photography as well. (178) This concept simply means that parallel lines in object space are depicted as converging lines on the image which will eventually meet at a point. Because. the Sun's distance from Earth is so great that it may be considered infinitely distant, it follows that,, in any sunlit scene, lines from objects to their shadows arc parallel. When these parallel lines are pictured the corresponding lines on the picture converge at a point known as the vanishing point. A picture of parallel railroad tracks provides a good illustration; the tracks are seen to converge to a point at the horizon.
In the case of the railroad tracks, the vanishing point is in the picture. This may not always occur. If the lines are perpendicular to the camera axis (the line from the center of the lens to the center of the film), the images of the lines will not appear to converge at a point, on the picture. The vanishing point may then be considered to be at infinity. In other cases, where the parallel lines are not perpendicular to the camera axis, the vanishing point is either in the picture or some finite distance outside it.
When this is the case, the directional consistency of shadows may be tested by drawing lines from images of objects to the corresponding points on the images of their shadows, and then extending these lines (beyond the actual picture if necessary) to see if they are meet at one point. If the lines do meet at one point, they are parallel and therefore consistent. If they do not met at one point, they are not parallel and consequently are not consistent.
When this analysis was applied to the backyard prints by drawing lines from a part of the stairway, the butt of Oswald's pistol, the muzzle of the rifle, Oswald's nose, et cetera, to the corresponding points on the shadows cast by these objects, the lines all met at the vanishing point. (See figs. IV-34 and IV-35, JFK exhibits Nos. F-387 and F-388.) Accordingly, the shadows were determined to he directionally consistent. A vanishing point analysis on 133C(Stovall) also yielded consistent results.
In the case of the railroad tracks, the vanishing point is in the picture. This may not always occur. If the lines are perpendicular to the camera axis (the line from the center of the lens to the center of the film), the images of the lines will not appear to converge at a point, on the picture. The vanishing point may then be considered to be at infinity. In other cases, where the parallel lines are not perpendicular to the camera axis, the vanishing point is either in the picture or some finite distance outside it.
When this is the case, the directional consistency of shadows may be tested by drawing lines from images of objects to the corresponding points on the images of their shadows, and then extending these lines (beyond the actual picture if necessary) to see if they are meet at one point. If the lines do meet at one point, they are parallel and therefore consistent. If they do not met at one point, they are not parallel and consequently are not consistent.
When this analysis was applied to the backyard prints by drawing lines from a part of the stairway, the butt of Oswald's pistol, the muzzle of the rifle, Oswald's nose, et cetera, to the corresponding points on the shadows cast by these objects, the lines all met at the vanishing point. (See figs. IV-34 and IV-35, JFK exhibits Nos. F-387 and F-388.) Accordingly, the shadows were determined to he directionally consistent. A vanishing point analysis on 133C(Stovall) also yielded consistent results.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
  Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
						
							251 replies
							
								
 = new reply since forum marked as read
							
						
      
      
					
						Highlight:
						NoneDon't highlight anything
						5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
						RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
					
                    
					
                    
        
        (1) Oswald always visited Marina in Irving on a Friday. Nov 21 was the first Thursday visit ever.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #2
      
        
        (2) Oswald's claim to be getting curtain rods in Irving was an implausible lie.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #4
      
        
        (3) Oswald told Frazier he would NOT be coming back to Irving on Friday night.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #6
      
        
        (4) That night Oswald avoided Kennedy talk with Marina, a subject it was their custom to discuss.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #7
      
        
        (5) Friday morning, Oswald left almost all his cash and his wedding ring in Irving.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #9
      
        
        (6) On Friday morning, Oswald placed a long paper-wrapped package in the back seat of Frazier's car.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #11
      
        
        (7) Frazier noticed that for the first time on a return trip from Irving, Oswald brought no lunch.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #12
      
        
        (8) On arrival at the TSBD, Oswald walked faster and ahead of Frazier for the first time ever.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #13
      
        
        (9) For the first time ever, Oswald didn't read the paper in the TSBD domino room.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #14
      
        
        (11) Howard Brennan saw Lee Harvey Oswald fire the third shot that killed the President.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #16
      
        
        What you've said here doesn't negate the fact that Brennan saw Oswald take the third shot. n/t
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #63
      
        
        Right, bbut you and I would both probably discount any such testimony in a live criminal case
        alcibiades_mystery
        Mar 2013
        #77
      
        
        (13) During interrogation, Oswald put himself on the sixth floor at the time of the assassination.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #18
      
        
        (14) Oswald's story of getting a Coke after hearing commotion of assassination is not sensible.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #19
      
        
        (15) It makes no sense that Oswald the "political animal" had no interest in the President's death.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #20
      
        
        I figured you needed more than one person pumping his own thread, so I'll add this...
        MrMickeysMom
        Mar 2013
        #21
      
        
        Many of these are largely debunked by Enemy of the Truth, Myths, Forensics, and the Kennedy Assassin
        OrwellwasRight
        Apr 2013
        #149
      
        
        I am not here to be told that people do not know what they smell and where.
        OrwellwasRight
        Apr 2013
        #151
      
        
        The fact that you can't agree to disagree means you are in fact trying to make me feel inferior.
        OrwellwasRight
        Apr 2013
        #157
      
        
        I'm not here to engage in Monty Python Argument Clinic Style "discussions"
        OrwellwasRight
        Apr 2013
        #158
      
        
        " I'm not here to engage in Monty Python Argument Clinic Style "discussions""
        zappaman
        Apr 2013
        #159
      
        
        "your implicaiton that I am feebleminded" - something you're importing to the conversation.
        Bolo Boffin
        Apr 2013
        #160
      
        
        Do you understand that 'credible evidence' and 'non-credible evidence' are legal terms?
        Bolo Boffin
        Apr 2013
        #165
      
        
        Oh, Sherry Fiester was present at the autopsy and was able to examine the body? n/t
        Bolo Boffin
        Apr 2013
        #167
      
        
        Also, there's a slight problem with the location Feister IDs as the site of the kill shot.
        Bolo Boffin
        Apr 2013
        #170
      
        
        Fact: You claimed a statement was made about the south overpass position. It was about the north.
        Bolo Boffin
        Apr 2013
        #190
      
        
        "What is also a fact is that I have told you I don't want to continue this conversation. "
        zappaman
        Apr 2013
        #194
      
        
        My mind is quite open to the facts and reasonable interpretations of them.
        Bolo Boffin
        Apr 2013
        #202
      
        
        Why? Because if I do, that conflicts with the little box you want to file me away in?
        Bolo Boffin
        Apr 2013
        #237
      
        
        Vague foreknowledge? The roll calls were taken after the assassination. n/t
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #73
      
        
        (17) Oswald walked past his normal bus stop and walked seven blocks to board a different line.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #28
      
        
        Your attempt at parody/mind reading doesn't negate that this actually happened.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #62
      
        
        (19) Oswald's not speaking to the cab driver about the assassination is striking.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #30
      
        
        (20) Oswald had the cab drive past his residence, dropping him off down the road.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #31
      
        
        (21) Oswald's behavior at his boarding house indicates a flight in progress.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #32
      
        
        Oswald's clipboard was found later. He'd filled no orders. He'd done no TSBD work that day.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #74
      
        
        (25) A store manager saw Oswald evading police sirens in front of his store.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #49
      
        
        (27) When approached by police in the Texas Theater, Oswald said "Well, it is all over now."
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #51
      
        
        (29) After arrest, Oswald refused to even give his name to arresting officers.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #53
      
        
        This thread is not about disproving a second shooter. It's about Oswald's involvement.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #122
      
        
        (32) After visiting him on Saturday, Marina came away convinced of Oswald's guilt.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #56
      
        
        Agreed. There also may be multiple explanations for his behavior, as well as for the other evidence.
        eomer
        Mar 2013
        #91
      
        
        (33) Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle was found on the sixth floor of the TSBD.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #83
      
        
        (34) The mostly intact bullet (CE 399) and two of the fragments were fired from this rifle.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #84
      
        
        (35) The three expended shells on the sixth floor were "fired in and ejected from" Oswald's rifle.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #85
      
        
        (36) A handmade paper bag large enough to carry Oswald's rifle was found in the sniper's nest.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #86
      
        
        (38) Oswald was the sole owner of the revolver found in his possession on arrest.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #88
      
        
        (39) The bullets recovered from Tippit's body were consistent with being fired from Oswald's .38.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #89
      
        
        (40) The four cartridge shells found at the Tippit murder scene were fired from Oswald's revolver.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #90
      
        
        I've only been to Dallas a couple of times but do bullets just fly around all the time?
        ryan_cats
        Apr 2013
        #161
      
        
        (41) A paraffin test on Oswald's hands showed he'd fired a revolver just before his arrest.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #103
      
        
        Does the paraffin test showing Oswald never field a rifle that day speak for itself as well?
        bogmanla
        Feb 2014
        #250
      
        
        (45) Oswald lied about owning a rifle, and about owning the Mannlicher-Carcano specifically.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #107
      
        
        (46) Oswald lied about being in the backyard photo where he was holding his rifle.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #108
      
        
        If someone said something about a "mysterious line across Oswald's chin," it was somebody
        AnotherMcIntosh
        Apr 2013
        #206
      
        
        Maybe you should believe the experts using technology not available 50 years ago.
        zappaman
        Apr 2013
        #208
      
        
        Who says that I don't believe the "experts."  Are you trying to engage in a poor ad hominem attack?
        AnotherMcIntosh
        Apr 2013
        #209
      
        
        So I do what?  Believe "experts" instead of my lying eyes?  Is that what you do?
        AnotherMcIntosh
        Apr 2013
        #211
      
        
        I'm not trying to convince you of anything or even to think for yourself.
        AnotherMcIntosh
        Apr 2013
        #215
      
        
        Others can see the link.  Sorry to hear about your comprehension problem.
        AnotherMcIntosh
        Apr 2013
        #228
      
        
        You "would expect a real photo-analyst to know" that whether or not the chin looks cleft depends on
        AnotherMcIntosh
        Apr 2013
        #238
      
        
        (48) Oswald lied about living at the place where the picture with the rifle was taken.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #110
      
        
        (50) Oswald lied about putting a long package into Frazier's car that morning.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #112
      
        
        (51) Oswald told police the only thing he'd brought to work that morning was his lunch.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #113
      
        
        (52) Oswald lied about having lunch on the first floor with two other employees.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #114
      
        
        Allow me to disabuse you of the notion that Kennedy was shot from the front: he wasn't.
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #129
      
        
        I don't think you understand my use of the term "legitimate researcher"
        OrwellwasRight
        Mar 2013
        #133
      
        
        Yes, your list in #128 is made up of non-credible evidence and false and misleading assumptions.
        Bolo Boffin
        Apr 2013
        #144
      
        
        Interns and doctors trying desperately to save JFK's life vs. a lengthy, laborious autopsy
        Bolo Boffin
        Mar 2013
        #136