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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Bernie: Dems lost because they "took they bait," meaning "Wall Street money." [View all]Gothmog
(171,996 posts)149. Sanders was on the ballot and underpreformed Clinton
        It is hard to take Sanders' claims seriously This is a good article that demonstrates that Sanders would have under performed in the general election https://extranewsfeed.com/bernie-sanders-was-on-the-2016-ballot-and-he-underperformed-hillary-clinton-3b561e8cb779#.jbtsa3epl
Of course, this narrative ignores the facts  that despite Clintons supposed flaws, she easily defeated Sanders in the primary via the pledged delegate count, that Sanders inability to convince minority voters doomed his campaign for the nomination, and that the attempt to use superdelegates to override the popular vote was an undemocratic power grab.
And the white workers whose supposed hate for corporate interests led them to vote for Trump? They dont seem upset that Trump has installed three Goldman Sachs executives in his administration. They dont seem to be angry that Trumps cabinet is the wealthiest in US history. And we havent heard any discontent from the white working class over Trump choosing an Exxon Mobil CEO for Secretary of State.
The devil is in the details, and at first glance, it is easy to see why so many people can believe that Bernie actually would have won. He got a great deal of positive media coverage as the underdog early on, especially with Republicans deliberately eschewing attacks on him in favor of attacks on Clinton. His supporters also trended younger and whiter, demographics that tend to be more visible in the media around election time. A highly energized and vocal minority of Sanders supporters dominated social media, helping him win online polls by huge margins.
But at some point, you have to put away the narrative and actually evaluate performance. This happens in sports all the time, especially with hyped up amateur college prospects before they go pro. Big time college players are often surrounded by an aura, a narrative of sorts, which pushes many casual observers to believe their college skills will translate to success on the next level. But professional teams have to evaluate the performance of these amateur players to determine if they can have success as professionals, regardless what the narrative surrounding them in college was. A college player with a lot of hype isnt necessarily going to succeed professionally. In fact, some of the most hyped up prospects have the most underwhelming performances at the next level. In the same vein, we can evaluate Sanders performance in 2016 and determine whether his platform is ready for the next level. Sanders endorsed a plethora of candidates and initiatives across the country, in coastal states and Rust Belt states. He campaigned for these candidates and initiatives because they represented his platform and his vision for the future of the Democratic Party. In essence, Bernie Sanders was on the 2016 ballot. Lets take a look at how he performed.
And the white workers whose supposed hate for corporate interests led them to vote for Trump? They dont seem upset that Trump has installed three Goldman Sachs executives in his administration. They dont seem to be angry that Trumps cabinet is the wealthiest in US history. And we havent heard any discontent from the white working class over Trump choosing an Exxon Mobil CEO for Secretary of State.
The devil is in the details, and at first glance, it is easy to see why so many people can believe that Bernie actually would have won. He got a great deal of positive media coverage as the underdog early on, especially with Republicans deliberately eschewing attacks on him in favor of attacks on Clinton. His supporters also trended younger and whiter, demographics that tend to be more visible in the media around election time. A highly energized and vocal minority of Sanders supporters dominated social media, helping him win online polls by huge margins.
But at some point, you have to put away the narrative and actually evaluate performance. This happens in sports all the time, especially with hyped up amateur college prospects before they go pro. Big time college players are often surrounded by an aura, a narrative of sorts, which pushes many casual observers to believe their college skills will translate to success on the next level. But professional teams have to evaluate the performance of these amateur players to determine if they can have success as professionals, regardless what the narrative surrounding them in college was. A college player with a lot of hype isnt necessarily going to succeed professionally. In fact, some of the most hyped up prospects have the most underwhelming performances at the next level. In the same vein, we can evaluate Sanders performance in 2016 and determine whether his platform is ready for the next level. Sanders endorsed a plethora of candidates and initiatives across the country, in coastal states and Rust Belt states. He campaigned for these candidates and initiatives because they represented his platform and his vision for the future of the Democratic Party. In essence, Bernie Sanders was on the 2016 ballot. Lets take a look at how he performed.
After looking at a number of races where sanders supported candidates under perform Hillary Clinton, that author makes a strong closing
If Sanders is so clearly the future of the Democratic Party, then why is his platform not resonating in diverse blue states like California and Colorado, where the Democratic base resides? Why are his candidates losing in the Rust Belt, where displaced white factory workers are supposed to be sympathetic to his message on trade? The key implication Sanders backers usually point to is that his agenda is supposed to not only energize the Democratic base, but bring over the white working class, which largely skews Republican. Universal healthcare, free college, a national $15 minimum wage, and government controlled prescription drug costs are supposed to be the policies that bring back a white working class that has gone conservative since Democrats passed Civil Rights. Sanders spent $40 million a month during the primary, and was largely visible during the general, pushing his candidates and his agenda across the country. The results were not good  specifically in regards to the white working class. The white working class did not turnout for Feingold in Wisconsin, or for universal healthcare in Colorado. Instead, they voted against Bernies platform, and voted for regular big business Republicans.
Why did Sanders underperform Clinton significantly throughout 2016  first in the primaries, and then with his candidates and initiatives in the general? If Sanders platform and candidates had lost, but performed better than Clinton, than that would be an indicator that perhaps he was on to something. If they had actually won, then he could really claim to have momentum. But instead, we saw the opposite result: Sanders platform lost, and lost by much bigger margins than Clinton did. It even lost in states Clinton won big. What does that tell us about the future of the Democratic Party? Well, perhaps we need to acknowledge that the Bernie Sanders platform just isnt as popular as its made out to be.
Why did Sanders underperform Clinton significantly throughout 2016  first in the primaries, and then with his candidates and initiatives in the general? If Sanders platform and candidates had lost, but performed better than Clinton, than that would be an indicator that perhaps he was on to something. If they had actually won, then he could really claim to have momentum. But instead, we saw the opposite result: Sanders platform lost, and lost by much bigger margins than Clinton did. It even lost in states Clinton won big. What does that tell us about the future of the Democratic Party? Well, perhaps we need to acknowledge that the Bernie Sanders platform just isnt as popular as its made out to be.
Trump would have destroyed sanders in a general election contest.
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                        Bernie: Dems lost because they "took they bait," meaning "Wall Street money." [View all]
							ucrdem
							Jan 2017
							OP
                        
        
        Well, at least he lost to, according to some, the best candidate for president, ever...
        dionysus
        Jan 2017
        #17
      
        
        Will he ever stop trashing the party he used to run with under our brand then went back to ...
        brush
        Jan 2017
        #89
      
        
        If it's so dumb, give a sound argument as to why. Did he not retreat to being an Independent again..
        brush
        Jan 2017
        #208
      
        
        Try reading some of the other post in this tread. You're out of step with most here. Now that's dumb
        brush
        Jan 2017
        #213
      
        
        Sanders lost because he failed utterly to appeal to voters beyond a narrow base of white voters
        Gothmog
        Jan 2017
        #147
      
        
        Let's see.  Russ Feingold is a Democrat.  Russ lost.  Therefore Russ must have taken the "bait"
        still_one
        Jan 2017
        #3
      
        
        your correct.  In Wisconsin for President it was Hillary 46.5% to trump 47.2%
        still_one
        Jan 2017
        #117
      
        
        Meanwhile, the president-elect is the most Wall Street friendly candidate EVER!
        Garrett78
        Jan 2017
        #190
      
        
        so that is why the incumbent republican Ron Johnson, right to work, anti-union candidate won.
        still_one
        Jan 2017
        #164
      
        
        I don't think it was progressives that lost Wisconsin for Clinton/Feingold.
        Goblinmonger
        Jan 2017
        #167
      
        
        No doubt it is purple, however, if those who had voted Jill Stein, who I assume were progressives, v
        still_one
        Jan 2017
        #172
      
        
        Part of his appeal is that he never stops fighting for what he believes in
        HoneyBadger
        Jan 2017
        #102
      
        
        Apparently he believes in the RW lie that there's no difference between the two parties.
        baldguy
        Jan 2017
        #107
      
        
        Being an "anti-establishment candidate" requires the belief that the Dems and the GOP are the same.
        baldguy
        Jan 2017
        #235
      
        
        He only ran as a Dem because he needed their money & organization to run nationally for Pres.
        baldguy
        Jan 2017
        #237
      
        
        Same as when he ran out the clock to avoid reporting at the end of his campaign
        seaglass
        Jan 2017
        #112
      
        
        He's still required to file that Personal Financial Disclosure each year as a member of the Senate.
        George II
        Jan 2017
        #125
      
        
        But we have to remember, Jane Sanders was in charge of media buys, and a person in that position....
        George II
        Jan 2017
        #124
      
        
        you are correct that lone individuals who don't take money will usually not even be heard of
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #49
      
        
        If they knew why do you think they wouldn't care? seriously. I'm with you, the knowing is the hard
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #72
      
        
        They are swayed daily, by a media who's job it is to sway them. Could we effectively counter-message
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #80
      
        
        And like Sanders, the average vote doesn't understand Federal campaign finance laws.
        George II
        Jan 2017
        #122
      
        
        Bernie is facing reality & offering constructive criticism so we can learn from our mistakes
        mtnsnake
        Jan 2017
        #11
      
        
        Or Martin Lockheed, the sugar industry, etc, we must not shield ourselves into thinking Sanders
        Thinkingabout
        Jan 2017
        #200
      
        
        His message isn't middling. I'm not going to defend the contributions as coming only from
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #210
      
        
        What did the admission of net worth say. I'm just not familiar with this story. nt
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #214
      
        
        I have no idea what you're looking at. His net worth for a Senator is like at the bottom. He has
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #216
      
        
        I think this started out as seeing a large increase in his net worth, more than his salary as
        Thinkingabout
        Jan 2017
        #219
      
        
        It actually totally can compute because assets, specifically property values can jump that high
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #220
      
        
        I did not do the report on his net worth when he was claiming he only had $350,000 net worth, I did
        Thinkingabout
        Jan 2017
        #221
      
        
        You are oversimplifying something. Sanders laments the power of money on our elections, so I don't
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #218
      
        
        No, he's not.  It's always one-way with Sanders, he is incapable of listening to any other viewpoint
        SharonClark
        Jan 2017
        #64
      
        
        It's constructive criticism only when Sander's people do so. When Clinton supporters do the same
        LanternWaste
        Jan 2017
        #225
      
        
        Trying to be considerate of big money's interests while helping the middle class and the poor
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #31
      
        
        Exactly! It makes no fucking sense at all, which is why we keep losing. Glad you're keeping up!
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #70
      
        
        Let me ask you something. When you post, do you just do it for the circle jerk, or do you want to
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #79
      
        
        I'm not talking about anything illegal. I never said the Clinton's did anything illegal. I don't
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #83
      
        
        Graft is illegal.  Promising favors in return for political donations is a crime.
        ucrdem
        Jan 2017
        #87
      
        
        But adopting policies that are acceptable to corporations so that they don't destroy you, and so
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #90
      
        
        Yes but if it happened there would be evidence -- meetings, emails, gifts, memos, wire transfers,
        ucrdem
        Jan 2017
        #91
      
        
        Hey ucrdem, appreciate the civil discussion! I'll just say that I don't think anything like that has
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #94
      
        
        heh...okay. If you want to attribute anger or upset to my post that's fine. I wish instead, that
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #84
      
        
        Except for a few small matters ... Putin, Comey, Crosscheck, vote suppression and other repug cheats
        brush
        Jan 2017
        #123
      
        
        All of which are effective by the grace of our own intentionally ineffectual media, owned by our own
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #152
      
        
        It tends to make some voters stay home of vote 3rd party. Not a good tactic if you want your party..
        brush
        Jan 2017
        #160
      
        
        Sanders ran solely for media coverage and the latest comments continue this pattern
        Gothmog
        Jan 2017
        #150
      
        
        okay...  media coverage is kind of important when you are delivering a message to the American
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #151
      
        
        That Sanders was not really trying to be the nominee but is only concern about his media coverage
        Gothmog
        Jan 2017
        #154
      
        
        I don't think Sanders thought he could win, given the upward battle. I think he was ready and 
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #155
      
        
        Well as a nation, we do tend to have a pretty certain trajectory, that entirely by coincidence I"m
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #179
      
        
        No I don't know that that's the reason, and you just totally ran away from your own bullshit to come
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #181
      
        
        Resorting to ad homonyms does not strengthen your argument, but since you're the expert, you
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #186
      
        
        Sanders was treated very fairly-look at the number of times he appeared on the Sunday shows
        Gothmog
        Jan 2017
        #158
      
        
        editing cuz, post was needlessly dickish:  I don't know if using one metric, "Sunday talk shows,"
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #161
      
        
        These media appearances were important to Sanders and are helping him sell his latest book
        Gothmog
        Jan 2017
        #185
      
        
        And for some of his appearances around the country, if you want to see him you have to buy a book...
        George II
        Jan 2017
        #193
      
        
        I agree that Sanders is in the process of cashing in on the media coverage earned during primary
        Gothmog
        Jan 2017
        #195
      
        
        wow! that DOES rise to the level of scandal. $34 DOLLARS, and you have to take the book!
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #217
      
        
        I don't know if you've noticed but almost every politician has been giving their reasons
        NWCorona
        Jan 2017
        #38
      
        
        He's being honest. We get corporate backing. I don't think that's in question. He's talking about a
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #29
      
        
        Enjoy your stay, but just a few small matters ... Comey, Putin, Assange, Crosscheck, vote suppressio
        brush
        Jan 2017
        #126
      
        
        "I heard it again after posting this and the word Bernie uses is actually "swallowed."
        Cha
        Jan 2017
        #48
      
        
        Make that "Wall Shtreet" (no, it's not a speech impediment, it's a gross mispronunciation)
        George II
        Jan 2017
        #119
      
        
        This isn't a coup though. Russia is not as powerful as our corporations, because our corporations
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #75
      
        
        It was a coup in the sense that Putin, Comey, Crosscheck, et al helped the repugs steal the election
        brush
        Jan 2017
        #128
      
        
        I'll accept that answer, but I feel like the same forces are in power in this nation that have been
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #145
      
        
        +1, and ignores Comey, voter suppression and Russia. Sanders thinks this was a free and fair electio
        uponit7771
        Jan 2017
        #98
      
        
        Funny how he's going around telling Democrats why they lost, but can't address why HE lost!
        George II
        Jan 2017
        #132
      
        
        BULL FUCKIN SHIT !!! Comey, Voter suppression and Russia all the rest of the postmortems are guessin
        uponit7771
        Jan 2017
        #95
      
        
        Much of Sanders' primary campaign served as a precursor to Trump's General Election Campaign.
        George II
        Jan 2017
        #141
      
        
        Sanders, you will NEVER be president. You LOST the PRIMARIES by MILLIONS of votes
        lunamagica
        Jan 2017
        #129
      
        
        Thomas Frank is a hack but clueless white "progressives" cite his word as gospel.
        forjusticethunders
        Jan 2017
        #224
      
        
        Sanders whole campaign was based on a so-called revolution that never materialized
        Gothmog
        Jan 2017
        #137
      
        
        isn't that what being on point is? We could say the same of anybody mentioning Putin and Comey,
        JCanete
        Jan 2017
        #182
      
        
        Another statement to help cover up the influence from Putin.  If we deny there was Russian influence
        Thinkingabout
        Jan 2017
        #204
      
  